This is wrong on so many levels. Wouldn’t even be close to being true for AoE1, let alone AoE2.
Germans don’t call themselves germans. They call themselves Deutsche (teutons). The Alemanni (Alamannen) are a subset of that.
old German only came to be in the early middle ages, so the word “teutonic” in latin, which is attested in 200 BC, cannot have derived from it.
the word comes from proto indo european Teutons - Wikipedia
Deutsche <> Teutons. I am a native German speaker, this is just completely wrong.
correct, yet that would be a tribe they could be named after in the game.
the germanic tribes/kingdoms of the middle ages didn’t collectively call themselves anything as a German identity didn’t exist. So we need to use some form of exonym in the game. Teutons doesn’t make sense, as that wasn’t used either at the time or nowadays. so calling them German, or Allemanni, or Nemec, or Saxons would all make sense
Anyways, you are still completely ignoring the point I’m making: lots of civs (and techs etc) are badly named, no point starting to rename stuff. There are so many other issues that need attention, yet it seems like the game has been abandoned in favour of AoM
2 Likes
Etymology
PIE word
*tewtéh₂
#######d since 1720, from Latin Teutonēs, Teutonī (“the Teutons”)[1] (cf. Ancient Greek Τεύτονες (Teútones)), a Germanic or Celtic tribe that inhabited a coastal area in today’s Germany and devastated Gaul between 113 and 101 BCE. Possibly from Proto-Indo-European *tewtéh₂ (“people”), from which come:
- Proto-Germanic *þeudō (“people”)
- Old English þēod (“nation, people, country, language”), Middle English thede
- Proto-Germanic *þeudanaz (“ruler, leader of the people”)
- Proto-Germanic *þiudiskaz (“of the people or tribe”)
- Proto-Celtic *toutā
- Persian توده (tôda, tude, “heap, masses, people, folk”)
- Proto-Slavic *ťuďь (“foreign, strange”)
As an additional note, medieval terms like Regnum Teutonicum and Ordo Theutonicus are translated as Reich der Deutschen and Deutscher Orden, respectively. Even considering the germans didn’t call themselves anything in the middle ages, the term that is used to refer to them now is equivalent to the term “teuton” and it has been for a long time (even the link you provided states so). It’s a similar reason to why anglophones call people from the Netherlands “dutch”. The word used for “deutsche” in English is “germans” simply due to linguistic happenstance (similarly to how they’re called “alemanni” in many languages). Even considering all of that, “teuton” is still used as an equivalent to “german” today, and not just in English.
The term being used to refer to something else hundreds of years before the game’s time period is not a very good reason to avoid using a the term when it was being used to refer to the people it refers to in-game, and it’s an even worse reason to call them “germans” instead.
Not saying that was the reason ES chose that name, though. They probably just thought it sounded cooler. But it works.
With that I agree. (Except Kataparuto. Fuck that tech in particular. At least call it Tousekiki. Wouldn’t complaing about the Vikings being renamed as Norse, either.)
2 Likes
so, I was right:
-it does come from PIE
-saying Teutonic is the same as Deutsch, is like saying “Theoden” is the same as “Deutsch”. They just have one very distant common root
Well, the term Ruthenia appeared way later and is also associated with early modern populations up to 20th century. This doesn’t sound as cool medieval as it should, imo.
Historiography has already made its choice of course, going with Rus; AoE IV as well.
2 Likes
And in my childhood I had read in a newspaper that “Saracens” is derived from “Sarah”, wife of prophet Abraham.
Yep. Take my “Heart” reaction.
3 Likes
However, the Arabs/Saracens are supposedly the descendants of Abraham and Hagar’s son, Ishmael.
Not going into religion, myth or anything.
That’s just his lineage. There were people already living in the peninsula. My very personal theory is after early medieval Islamic conquest, European just assumed everyone from Arab and Levant are same people as Sarah who is a daughter of a Mesopotamian king according to Christian belief.
I didn’t say it was medieval. I said it sounded medieval.
Thankfully AoE2 is not a historical game.
No. It’s like saying “wolf” and “lupus” are the same since they mean the same thing and have the same proto-indoeuropean origin.
Yes, I agree… in the end it should be Serbians, Croatians, Albanians, Slavs reworked into Ruthenians and that’s it, we won’t touch Europe again for the next 5 years…
Yes, Teutons sounds like AoE 1 civ, they did well to call them Germans in AoE 3 (Germans as a people, not as a nation)…
Yes, Rus was a political entity, Ruthenians does sound like civ from AoE 2…
Nah, the game wasn’t abandoned…it’s just like in 2020 they are more focused on other games and not so much AoE 2…in 2020 they were focused on AoE 3 DE and now they are focused on AoMR and the Baltic DLC of AoE 3 DE…
We don’t have Gemans as is, but we have Teutons as they represent the nation in a more pop-culture aspect.
We don’t have Sweden or Normans but have Vikings for same reason.
We have Chinese but they had different fractions and empires.
We have Magyars, not Hungarians.
Then what is the problem with Saracens? This is same ASPECT of a nation instead of the whole nation. Which seems to be totally normal for this game.
3 Likes
This makes me wonder why someone posted about Saracens’ name before Hindustanis’ name, which is probably the least historically accurate of all the civ names, considering that Hindustani is a language, not a civilization. The Dravidians, however, were (and still are) a culture in India that came into existence around 300 B.C.E.
1 Like
It’s really not that inaccurate. Hindustan was the term Muslims used for India, at least the part they occupied. So Hindustanis refer to the people of Muslim India. Pretty straightforward.
1 Like
This is the most braindead opinion anyone could have. I know it’s a common opinion and I’m attacking people for it.
Person who wouldn’t be offended by a term anyway says it’s not an offensive term. Classic .
5 Likes
Let’s be clear: Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners. That’s a George Carlin quote, and it’s very accurate. No one’s speech should be policed on the whims of what society deems acceptable.
I don’t even know anyone actually part of the group who is offended by it. It’s always outsiders speaking for the group in question that find offense. Thing is, in almost every case, the group being targeted doesn’t even care.
5 Likes
Oh, so you were the one complaining about people talking about Romanians in a topic made to talk about Romanians? Can’t say you didn’t deserve to be called out for that.
“Everything I don’t like is fascism”
“People being offended on others’ behalf is a bad thing,” unlike you being un-offended on their behalf I assume.
4 Likes
In this case, it is. Being extremely controlling of others unnecessarily is basically the definition of fascism.
Yes, it actually is. It’s pathetic and demonstrates misplaced priorities. If a group doesn’t care, neither should you. Spend your time doing more productive things.
I’m not un-offended, I just don’t care. Neither should you. It doesn’t matter.
3 Likes
Nobody is controlling you, you can say the ###### if you want. But people will judge you for it, like I’ll judge you for trying to change the definition of stuff you don’t like to be the same as fascism.
But to be honest, I don’t even want to interact with you ever again after today.
3 Likes
No, but political correctness is all about trying to control people through social pressure, which is almost as bad. The difference between me and a lot of people is that I do not conform to societal pressure, norms, or expectations. I march by the beat of my own drum and no one can tell me otherwise.
I don’t say slurs, nor do I condone slurs, because I try not to belittle people of any demographic. But you’re assuming that my championing for the right of people to say terms that aren’t blatantly offensive to a reasonable person somehow means I want to be offensive, and that’s simply not true.
Let them judge me, I don’t care. I’ll die before I conform.
Controlling people for arbitrary reasons is extremely authoritarian. It may not be strictly fascist, but consider the source. George Carlin was a comedian, an extremely witty one, and what he often said was generally true, if a little exaggerated. He made a good point that political correctness is simply authoritarian by its very nature because it is trying to control people who aren’t doing anything wrong.
Fine by me. You would join the ranks of people I don’t want to interact with as well.
I assumed that most people on at least this section of the forum were reasonable. I was wrong.
4 Likes
That’s your view of political correctness, which you do you I guess? But no sane person would even pretend to agree. The people who agree with you are the problem, not the solution.
Your problem was assuming you’re reasonable.
3 Likes