It always feel that this unit is too op, incredibly good at raiding and don’t take damage from TC or castle fire, nothing can catch up to it. Despite making counter unit, it is just,too slow and wont kill it because they just,run around idle the whole eco, a few seconds looking away a lot of vills could die. No way a gold costing cav should be faster than hussar, it is ridiculous
That’s the property of the unit, it has lower hp but dodge property to be more resistant to pierce attacks, lower damage output but higher speed. Overall a very good unit in the mid game. If its slower with like 1.4 speed, light cav, camels will chase down and kill it.
Its just true for any cavalry unit. If you don’t look, vills will die and the unit will roam around your base. Light cav, knights, steppe lancers, most of the unique cavalry units with good speed.
Its not Franks or Lithuanians who produce this unit. Its from a civ that doesn’t have knights. Early in castle age, this unit is not easy to mass and is fragile in low numbers. It takes time to get a good eco and start massing these units. If it doesn’t have any advantages, the 20 gold will be a waste of investment and Gurjara players would rather go for light cav. Maybe its speed could drop to 1.55 to trade for +5 or +10 hp but it MUST remain faster than light cav overall.
No. Other cavs can be chased down by camels, die to defensive buildings. Neither apply to shrivamsha
Light Cav can’t be chased by Camels.
In any case, Shrivamshas are probably fair now. Just keep small groups of Pikemen in key areas and you will be able to hit them back as they raid. Much like with Knights, the trick is to position your pikes properly, Shrivamshas hit more softly than Knights, but are faster in return.
Speed is already kinda paid for in their total cost because stat-wise, the unit is fairly underwhelming (basically a side-grade of a Light Cav which hits a bit harder, but has less HP, less PA and costs more in return for 1 more attack and a regenerating shield.
This units breaks several records for cavalry units lol.
Cheapest gold cost among gold-costing cavalry units (20 gold) (well if we dont count magyar huszar xD)
Fastest move speed cavalry unit (and fastest land unit)
One of the fastest attacking cavalry units, 1.75 reload time (the only faster ones are bulgarian stirrups stable units i think?)
Fastest training non-Castle cavalry unit (20 sec to train)
And then with Kshatriyas researched it only costs a total of 72.5 res to produce (20g, 52.5f).
this is a bit ill-posed, you can make a bunch of these arbitrary statistics/facts. For example, Eagle warriors are THE most gold-intensive unit in the game if you exclude Monks! Light Cav are the best unit in terms of mobility per gold spent! You get a lot of speed while paying ZERO gold! And Longswords trade evenly vs Knights while being about 1/2 as gold intensive!
At some point, such considerations sound silly. Shrivamshas are a good unit, annoying to deal with, and yes there are games where they find a lot of damage. Then again, there are games where Xbow or Knights or Steppe Lancers find a lot of damage, too. People who hate on Shrivamshas probably think that only Knights and Xbow are allowed to get a lead in Castle Age fights.
in truth, Shrivamshas are the weakest melee unit in Castle Age. I think they lose 1v1 vs nearly every Castle Age unit except maybe Light Cav. So you gotta use their mobility to make them pay off. And like Hera said, mobility is a good player’s dream. Mobility will always be king in high level AoE but as soon as you go into a 1700 elo game or something, you see Shrivamshas running into pikes fairly often, for example.
The viper just won with shrivamsha yesterday, with little army compared to vinchester, vs eagle civ which supposedly counter camel civ, by just running around and raid.
The fact that TC fire doesnt do any damage is broken. Also they are fast so the arrows misses a lot anyway. In late game you have full upgrades but the arrows dont do any damage is so frustrating.
They also defy counters, they beat mamelukes, axeman, etc, simply because the projeciles dont do damage despite the mameluke bonus attack. I think they should only dodge projectile from buikdings, ships, archers and cav archers, not melee projectile, mangonels, trebs or BBCs.
This unit can also run circles around TC, idling the whole eco but dont die to tc fire. If you use hussar and do the same they will die to TC
And the day before that Liereyy killed Villese who did shrivamshas with just crossbows and camels as Chinese.
On day 1 Vinch won with mayans against Tatoh who played Gurjaras. Tatoh did all the same things that you mention but he couldn’t win. He was losing more vills to plumed and eagle raids than what Vinch was losing to Shrivamsha raids.
What you and some of the “hype” casters don’t understand from these games is that something would have happened earlier in the game like a mangonel shot by the Gurjara player on enemy crossbows or the enemy investing too much into army with no monk or siege push and neglecting their economy. This type of judgemental errors occur when there’s a skill difference or if a civ is more suitable for a particular map. In that particular game, the game was over a long time ago before Vinchester resigned. He was just trying to see if he could do something with his early imp because it was the last game of the set in a knockout stage.
If hussars are raiding you and you don’t send halberdiers, your tc will remain garrisoned for a long time as well. Dying to TC fire is something that happens in a favorable way for the defender in castle age. In imperial age, tanky raiding units like hussar or eagles need to be dealt with military. So the premise that a raiding unit is Op because it’s at good what its designed to do is flawed.
Just don’t use projectile units then. Use halberdiers and heavy camels. You can even fight hussar at that stage of the game and get a fair trade. Any melee unit that doesn’t fire a projectile is going to wreck Shrivamsha riders.
And Viper won with Mayans against Hindustani, both doing UU. Weren’t Ghulam meant to counter Archers?!!
Maybe single games should not be considered as proof for or against certain units being strong or weak.
Exactly, so why would you do Mamelukes and Axeman? You have Camels, Halberdiers (or pikes for Saracens). Franks also have strong Knights.
People are so stuck on Mamelukes as proof that Shrivamsha Riders are OP, but this is just dishonesty at this point. Yeah, I also think the dodge mechanic should only work against arrow projectiles (gunpowder would go through, for example), but this is a trite argument by now.
it is not a good design the riders can dodge melee throwing weapon and siege while it is meant to be anti archer only. You are just argueing for the sake of arguing. evey sentence i say you have to argue back. boring
it is because mameluke is supposed to be anti shrivansha rider and camel rider counter mameluke. thats the circle. if saracens does camel then gurjara has anti camel camel
Unfortunately you’re just saying a lot of random illogical statements. Viper did this and that with Shrivmashas so its Op. It doesn’t die to a few vills garrisoned in tcs, so its OP. It dodges mamelukes and bombard canons, so its OP. All niche situations or uneven matchups not applicable to a unit balance. No one makes memelukes nor make siege to counter cavalry, and if you’re problem is mamelukes and melee projectiles not countering Shrivamsha riders, change the topic of discussion to be about that – shrivamshas dodge mechanic shouldn’t shield against melee projectiles or siege, instead of just calling it OP.
where is it written that Mamelukes are supposed to counter Shrivamshas? Please post quotation from the devs saying this is an unintended interaction.
Mameluke counters all cav, all horses. That’s the only thing mameluke does. Shrivamsha is the only exception
1 game doesn’t prove much given how many factors go into a win. Unit choice is only one. Gurjaras are a good civ, but not ### ######## ban type of good according to most pros, and I’ll sooner believe pros than believe you.
Also, Eagle civs don’t counter Camel civs, where would you even get that from 11.
Finally raiding is a healthy come back mechanic, extremely good for the game and you can raid with units other than Shrivamshas too. Your complaint that Shrivamshas are broken cuz they raid well is a red herring because it seems your issue is with raiding as a mechanic and this mechanic isn’t exclusive to Shrivamshas, Knights, Xbow, SL can all raid very effectively too for example.
says who? They don’t counter Cataphracts for example and ### ###### #### ###### and dying by the ingame tooltip, this is just a general reference for new players, not something to trust in 100% of cases, there are so many examples of the tooltip being misleading, such as when it says Pikeman strong vs Knights or Coustillier weak vs Monks… again these are suggestions for people learning the game, once you watch pro games the game works a bit differently and considerations like mass, momentum, secondary units wtc. play a bigger role.
They do counter cataphract. They trade very well vs cataphract in a group
ok mate if that’s what you take away from my post you do you I guess I’m just gonna ignore this thread.
I think the TO initially had the right point what makes Shrivamsha so hard to deal with.
It’s onlydetectable when you really critically look up their interaction with projectiles. Most of the time arrows from defensive buildings like TCs or Castles but often also from all kind of other ranged units.
What happens is that as these projectiles arent all shot at the same time, whenever the shrivamsha changes it’s direction a lot of them miss the Rider. Also it appears that when shrivamsha go in groups, often the arrows don’t hit a single unit but multible, meaning that it’s not a single shoeld you have to overcome at any time but mutltiple. Which ofc makes it then so much harder to bring them down.
Both of this is in my opinion just caused by the Speed of that unit. It’s just so fast, it “passively” already evades projectiles by being not where they land. And it may even confuse the targeting system, as by the time shrivamshas enter the range of your ranged units it’s not a single shrivamsha but instead multiple at once at the same frame. This is only a theory, but it looks like that’s what happens.
On top of that the shoeld was seemingly tested and introduced against archers. But Archers have of all the ranged units the highest amount of projectiles per second and investment (outside of the multiple projectile firing ones). Which means ALL other ranged units that don’t hit multiple times with a single shot necesarily perform worse against the Shrivamsha…Which in opinion is a too blunt design.
Weve seen stuff like Janissaries vs Shrimshas, but even more the interactions with stuff like GC or Mamelukes show how much stronger the Shield is against everything that isn’t an archer.
Even against CA the Shrivamshas are actually a better Counter already than the Camels, which is silly as Gurjara Camels are already super strong.
I still think the Shield should block damage from Projectiles and not numbers. this would lead to way more balanced interactions with the shrivamsha. The way the Shrivamsha is designed currently basically takes away all kind of ranged units that fire slower per investment than archers which are almost all. And this is quite a silly design imo.
I’m not sure about that. But Shricamshas aren’t bad melee fighters either, agree.
because it is OP, definitely my most hated Unit of all time. I think they need more nerf especially removing the ability to dodge siege unit projectile.
They shouldn’t have all these things together. Either remove dodging melee projectiles, or make it slower, or change the cost whatever just shouldn’t have all these advantages together