Siege Elephant should have 600 HP

Armoured elephant 450 HP, Siege Elephant 600 HP. Affected by bloodlines, of course. Their HP is too low for an elephant unit. I know this may sound like an overbuff, but they seem weak for elephant units.

Since they do low damage to against non buildings they should at least be very tanky. At least working as a damaged sponge would be something. That way they can harm buildings, get in close, and ram them, while simultaneously being able to take a significant beating before being taken down. Receive 50% less bonus damage from the spearman-line.

They will still die to spearman-line units due to their cost and how much damage they receive. Not to mention, unlike War Elephants, they will do far less damage to the spearmen-line.

They can still keep their low attack. So, they will suck in melee combat. But at least they will be tanky. They cost food, so you will need a lot of farms to make them. Perhaps a new cost for making them this tanky.

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Doesn’t the Armoured Elephant have 200 HP? And you ask for more than double that?

They’re already faster than the regular Ram and they have about half the upgrade cost than the Siege Ram, yet perform nearly identical against buildings.

I agree that what could be changed is the amount of bonus damage taken from Halberdiers to be the same as of Capped Rams.
Civs only with access to Pikemen would otherwise struggle immensely against them.

But keep in mind they benefit from all Blacksmith upgrades too which isn’t the case for Rams.

They seem very weak. They should at least be damage sponges with such a low attack. 600 HP would be much more cool. They will be like lesser war elephants in melee while simultaneously better against buildings and be sponges vs arrow fire.

Also this a joke with this video shows here.

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Wouldn’t they be unstoppable though? If the player makes a bunch of siege elephants with 620hp and tons of arbs to kill the pikes and everything else, how would the siege elephants be stopped?

Probably. I just feel like they are underwhelming. Give them more melee armour then, I guess. Their low damage should be okay.

I’ll hold my set-in-stone judgement until the DLC comes out, but for now…
600 HP sounds way too much, but a small boost might be useful. Sure, Armoured Elephants have more health than Battering Rams (identical to Capped and Siege Rams have slightly more health than Siege Elephants) but considering the Spearman weakness, I wouldn’t be opposed to something like +25.
They don’t need armour buffs, as they’re already affected by Scale/Chain/Plate Barding Armour.

Are you sure that 600 is enough?

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I mean if someone can mass Siege elephants AND arbs, and the opposition has only Halbs, then probably the former player deserves to win and win huge.

People miss the point that Halbs are just a small trash unit
They shouldn’t be a godsend bane of all cavalry and all elephants as they currently are, dealing as much as 40 damage to anything on a horse, and as much as 70 damage to anything Elephant.

Halbs honestly, should just be meant to be a cheap minor remedy in fighting cavalry and Elephants.

The fact that people have gotten used to Halbs destroying elephants without breaking a sweat shows that something is wrong with the balance of the Elephant units.

That bonus damage of +60 (total damage 70) coming from the cheapest melee unit to elephants is just plain ridiculous


That wasnt his claim at all. The only thing that does more damage to elephants (compared to rams) is pikes and camels.

Literally everything else would EVENTUALLY be able to kill 600 hp elephants, but it wouls be significantly harder then killing equivalent in rams.

So if you have mass arb and mix in some of these 600 hp elephants, it would require significantly more investment then if you had mass arb + rams.

Should they be made more resistant to pikes and camels? Absolutely. But remember these things still hold up better then rams to everything else and move faster.

They are not without their advantages


You cannot remove such a key element otherwise you would have to recreate the complete gameplay balance from scratch.

Do you want the only counter to Elephants to become Monks or none at all? :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Actually elephant should perform better across the board considering it costs a humungous 130F 95G AND needs many upgrades compared to a Rams much cheaper 170W 75G
(For those confused, you need to know just how much more Food and Gold is valuable then Wood)

The Elite Armoured Elephant upgrade is actually half the cost of what it takes to get to Siege Ram. The Blacksmith/Stable upgrades applied that you get for your cavalry are a bonus on top. But nice try 11

Just give them some small resistance against Pikes and Camels and they will perform just fine. Also remove the negative armor and keep it 0. Siege Elephant still does a good job vs Skirmishers despite being a complete Siege focused unit.


So do Rams

Just saying this is not a replacement for providing logic, reasoning and data.
The Armoured Elephants need Cav armor upgrades and Bloodlines (total 1000F 600G) to perform better than Rams vs melee units otherwise they are worse off than rams overall.

Like i said. Givd rhem more resistance to pikes and camels.

But lets not pretend this unit is without its advantages. Which is what some around here are doing.


This. Siege Elephants are already as good as Rams and in some cases even better, such as with higher speed and being able to fight back against Monks.

They can also be healed by monks…


Rams doesn’t do auto attack. It is good as meat shield only. Siege Elephant attacks non-buildings as well. It is a meatshield and a good melee in rare situations. They can be a good villager killers or other may catch archers off-guard.

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Siege obviously.
If a player has tons of arbs and a bunch of siege elephants the defending player I believe could afford a bunch of onagers/scorpions at least.
Or the game was already over.

Anyway, I’d just be happy to know precisely how much bonus damage these elephants take from pikes, but for now it’s still uncertain.