Do you think English should not get silk bowstrings?
Wynguard rangers with silk bowstrings get 11 range with very decent attack. Paired with man at arm which forces the opponent to go handcannoneers or crossbows, whom can be sniped easily by wynguard rangers. Mangonel is not even coming close to counter cuz they are massively out ranged and with reworked siege armor, they are easily sniped.
They should get it so their archers maintain their advantage other others which is the whole point of them. The only solution is to just scrap the tech entirely if you want to avoid them sniping siege. Alternatively just make horsemen/knights to deal with the archers.
Wynguard units are not much of a problem due to how few of them you train.
Longbow got 40% attack speed, more damage so already better than generic archers
Is the buff really needed for English late game?
The attack speed is a civ bonus, not related to the unit. It should not be taken into account in a unit vs unit comparison. Longbows are more expensive and much slower than normal archers.
There’s also an ability that reduces base attack speed to .625 for 6 seconds: Explorer – AoE4 World
Longbowmen only cost 10 more resources than the standard archer, deal 1 more base damage and have 2 more range, have an ability to stun/deal damage to cavalry charging them… at the cost of having 10% less movement speed.
That’s in addition to the attack speed bonus that all english units receive when in range of a defensive building.
They absolutely should not have access to silk bowstrings.
This match during the PUP shows the result of keeping it:
(Starting around 28:50)
Aggressive stone walls running perpendicular into the enemy base. Siege can’t break the walls, longbowman would have 11 range, wynguard would have 13. English snaking it towards you, with nothing able to respond to it.
It’s genuinely broken.
English shouldnt get this tech.Only other civs can get and if they want to preserve the longbow range advantage they can cut the range bonus and price of this tech to half but still english shouldnt get it.
The whole point of longbows is that they have more range, it is also the only english unique unit. You cannot have it so that in imperial all other archers match the range of longbows. If this extra range is an issue just remove silk bowstrings.
Longbow starting with the +2 range bonus in feudal is enough for them. It being an upgrade gives every other civ archers that are relevant in imperial. The longbow still has increased damage, palings, and arrow volley. They don’t need to spend 800 resources to be given a bonus to their range, as they have it by default.
There are a multitude of examples with other unique units, and it’s already been said that longbows have bonuses in more than just range. If English want an archer with 9 range they can train the Wynguard Ranger.
Since English have no cavalry archer they have no reason to have the upgrade.
This also isn’t the only civ based bonus that represents an early/free upgrade over standard units. Other examples would be abbasid/ayyubid having siege engineering by default, or french having free melee attack research.
If this begins to cross into historical accuracy or whatever, then the English longbow (range of ~300m) is outranged by the composite bows (range of ~400m) used in many other armies.
It’s not enough they have extra range until imp, other civs unique units don’t have temporary benefits. Samurai don’t have deflective armor until imperial then its gone or they enable it for everyone else. I can say the same about all of the unique units.
Ayyubids camels don’t have the camel unease effect until only imp do they? Or do french knights only get automatic healing and extra damage upon charge until only imp?
The only possible scenario in that I could potentially agree with this is if wynguard units were able to be trained from archery ranges and barracks so that way english can still maintain the range advantage albeit at greater cost and forced through landmark choice. I prefer it as it is currently though.
It’s not enough because English is not strong enough in imp for you? You compared with a lot of units but they at least have a counter. Not the case for those berkshire on feet.
Rangers from archery ranges? Oh Hell no.
They would not be strong enough if the longbow was nerfed. Horseman counter longbows just fine so do men at arms, so do knights and so does mangonel.
No one is suggesting a nerf. Personally, I see it as asking for them not to be buffed.
Edit: I don’t want to make another post for this. Not changing anything about how a unit functions is completely neutral. It cannot be direct, it cannot be considered a nerf. Because nothing changes.
It’s very confusing to me to suggest that not giving english silk bowstrings is a nerf because of that.
In other words a direct nerf if you’re buffing every other archer except longbow.
I agree, leaving the English out would be a contradict move for the English Civ Speciliality of better Bows.
This is the best solution. Just make Silk Bowstrings give +1 range instead of +2, and remove it from English. It’s a nerf to them, but it’s not like English needs a buff, and they could use a nerf in Imperial to motivate them to actually leave their base.
Dont give Silk Bowstrings for english. Instead give them an unique technology.
Maybe a tech that improve their speed, rate of fire, armor or damage…
or reduce the Silk Bowstrings effectiveness for the English
Yep, historically only Asian people used silk bowstrings for their bows.
Western archers cannot afford it as it was way too expensive for them and archery was not their main method of warfare. In western empire only noble people were able to afford silk.
It was a dream for most peasants and military units.
They don’t have better bows, they actually have the cheapest bows.
The best bows are made in Asia during the game’s period.
You can look for it…
Make knights and horsemen
I think they need to give the mangonel an upgrade in imperial with +2 range to counter out the silk bowstrings