You are comparing this the wrong way. Cata and condo are similar in that they counter their own counters. HC and halbs are just normal counter units, except halbs are trash while HC cost gold. You can’t compare condo here to halb, you need to compare it with Cata.
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Yes i get it, i don’t know maybe you are right, it’s that when i use condos i fell like they aren’t that strong, even against HC, and they are more vulnerable to other range units that they should.
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Indeed they have weaknesses, but they were never meant to be used alone to begin with. You can even throw hussars in the front to eat up arrows if they don’t happen to have spears there. But hope you got some tips from this conversation on how to improve. 
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Just had a Team match as Italians, and was able to singlehandedly counter Huns and Teutons.
Italians need no buffs, they are Paladin-proof and Gunpowder-proof.
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But hope you got some tips from this conversation on how to improve.
That is always welcome.
I was tinking more about situation where you can use them alone, like spamming them from multiple barracks at a fast early imp, or on islands, where you can sneak a barrack just to raid the economy, the way i immagine it they would be a bit more resistant to arrow fire.
Again it’s just an idea like other to buff the italians on land maps.
Good for you, but generally it’s difficult to keep up with lot o civs moste of the time. They don’t really have a lot of bonus or advantages on land maps, both in early and late game.
They do, however, richly and easily counter, Franks, Teutons and Persians.
I am not a great player, and was immediately rushed with Huns Paladins (It was a Post Imp Deathmatch, which means my Italians were not even taking advantage of most of their bonii). A Cumans player helped me out with a few Camels, but once I had 5 Castles pumping out Genoese Crossbows, I was able to defeat production of 23 Stables from 2 players.
The Teutons player tried to go for HCs and Infantry, but I also had HCs and Condos.
Everyone at the match was saying Italians is OP, there is no lategame counter to them, since they also get FU Elite Skirmisher.
One of the best all-rounder civs, in my opinion. Just a little worse than Chinese.
Me and the Cumans ally just stomped 4 players (Huns + Vikings + Teutons + Mongols) with an A-move of Camels and Rams (him), Genose Crossbows, Condos and BBCs (me).
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Mmm ok i understand it.
In deathmatch they are good (i think on’t really play it) but not the best, so balanced.
The problem is when you play with standard land maps (team or 1v1), you can’t survive or keep up with civs with good early bonus (mongols, huns, franks ecc…), that’s why to me they need at least something of a buff for the castle age.
They are even better on a regular match, since cheaper Age Ups can guarantee they remain ahead in tech against most other civs.
By the time a regular civ is reaches Castle, you should already be half way towards Imp, or have a massive Castle Age army to just rush them.
Genoese Crossbows murder Mangudai too, and any other Cav Archer.
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I disagree, first GE yes they kill mangudai, but they take a lot more time to mass, plus mangudai they can retreat, hit and run, harass your economy and so.
Plus cheaper age up helps but a lot of civs have a lot of stronger bonus, like faster hunting, no needing houses, cheaper cav archer, free tumb ring and so. It doesn’t matter if you age up faster if you don’t have the resources or the units for doing something.
Italians are one of the most versatile civilizations right now, they are good on land maps, water maps, mixed maps, full walled maps like arena, they counter almost everything.
Italians already got a buff when DE was released, the fire rate of the genoese crossbowman was increased, it used to shoot slower, now it actually trades very well vs plums or other strong archers.
A combo with genoese+cannons and hussars is deadly and so hard to stop, in fact with proper micro genoese+cannon its gg.
Italians are deftly a top 10 civ, they don’t need anything else.
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Cheaper age Ups ensure you always have the resources to make more units or upgrades then other civs, however.
On advancing to Feudal alone you save 75 Food, which almost enough for a Scout, and more than enough for an extra Militia.
On Castle Age you save 120 Food and 30 Gold, which is just 45 Gold and 20 Food short of a Knight and a Scout.
On Imperial Age you save 150 Food and 120 Gold, which is almost 2 Knights and some Food left.
It may not seem like much, but it adds up very fast. Specially because you will have cheap Gunpowder units on a whoping 20% disctount.
Italians are probably the second best Generalist (good at everything) civ in the game.
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Not every time you get to HC or BC, and 75 food while it is handy, it’s more powerful a faster gathering rate or a discount on a unit that you can get earlier.
Or simply more powerful units.
Not for immediate pressure, which is something an Italians player can actually maintain from a Drush all the way to Imp.
Italians have Arbalest, 2 great UUs, Cavalier, and cheap HCs and BBCs. They have strong units.
They also have most Trash upgrades, missing only Halberdier.
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The problem isn’t just for dark age rush, even in feudal and castle age they don’t have something that allow them to keep up, and even when they have a castle they have difficulties to mass up GC, and they don’t have other units with particular bonuses.
But they do. If the map has Water, then you have cheap Fishing Ships, which allow to get a lot of Food, for very little Wood investment.
The Age Up discount also makes sure you always have more units than your enemy both in Feudal and Castle Ages, all the way to early Imp.
Italians are not the ones trying to keep up, the other civs are trying to keep up with Italians instead.
Any decent player will always be the one to Age Up sooner, and have a bigger army, as Italians.
They are borderline OP!
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Here we are talking mainly about land maps, not water.
Still, while the cheap age up is versatile, there are a lot of stronger and consistent bonus, the age up it’s just a tre times effect.
A three time effect that gets you over-teched when compared to your opponent.
That is a very strong effect, even if it happened only once.
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Condos used to have 1 pierce armor but it was removed because people would use Condos as discount huskarls.
Well, your ally had some weird ideas to use his bad camels instead of his Palas to help 11
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