Yes but i was considering the civs in general, not one against the other, to me while i love condos i think that halbs are better and more versitale.
And yes on water italians wins both early and late game, have more tanky galeons isn’t useful if you use fast fire for tank and cheaper and fater training galeons.
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Atleast one time where Elite janissaries are the better option vs infantry than HC is. >:D
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For every rule, there is usually one exception.
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This would be opverpowered.
Cheaper Age Ups + cheaper Docks techs is already very, very strong. If you add cheaper University Techs, then you make Italians OP.
Perhaps even more so than Chinese.
I forgot to mention Jaguar Warrior with the other anti condottieros.
But I don’t like aztecs, so no biggie.
Anyways, all other anti-infantry units but the HC were given the att bonus vs condottiero to compensate.
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Condos have only anti gunpowder armor, they remove the anti infantry armor time ago.
My complain is that they need a bit more pierce armor, 17 damage it’s still a lot, they need more 1 or 2 base pierce armor.
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Thankfully, although the unit is also very fast moving, it’s attack is low and it costs alot of gold so it’s not that OP. Good nonetheless tho.
Aaaah, goths spamming condottiero and husks vs turks.
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Condotierros are just anti-Gunpowder Huskarls, but even faster. The really tear a whole into any Gunpowder civ’s plans.
Except such thing does not exist as an “anti gunpowder armor”, HC has attack bonus vs infantry, so only infantry armor bonus negates that. That’s why the condottiero armor class was added to condottiero and other anti infantry units received attack bonus towards it so they still function as they should, since condottiero is only an anti gunpowder unit.
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Except in practice it can almost replace the Champion, and is a quasi-Eagle Warrior for Imp Age Italians.
Except, 17 damage that cannot be boosted with blacksmith upgrades. Condottiero however gets +4 pierce armor from the blacksmith. So it’s actually already 13 damage IF the HC even hits it, which is just over half of the damage it does to other infantry units.
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maybe 30% cheaper dock tech 20% cheaper univeristy tech?
No, you can’t decrease the dock tech that much, otherwise it would be useless for the castle age techs.
I think they don’t need all university tech cheaper, only the ones that affect archer and galeons, like balistic and chemistry, they could be inclused in the “dicounted dock techs” since they have a use even in water battles.
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And don’t forget, the dude runs like a dark age scout. 1.2 speed.
Before squires.
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Well 13 it’s still a lot for a unit supposed to counter HC, at least 1 pierce armor like the champion.
Not if the unit itself does 20 damage to it (after all upgrades on both sides) and attack faster than the HC shoots if it can reach it, which it probably can with its 80 hp and epic speed.
Edit: oh and rate of fire seems to be even faster than what champion has, 1.93 vs 2.03. And HC has 3.45
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This is also like the situation with cataphract and halberdiers. Both counter each other. Halb is clearly the underdog, but still does 16 bonus damage against the elite cata, 20 for non-elite. And Elite Cataphracts can win against halbs with more than a 3 to 1 ratio. So halbs stop being cost efficient, except they cost no gold of course, but take awesome amounts of pop from you if you try to fight catas with them and then you’ll be having no other units on the field, barely villagers for eco.
HC and condottiero both counter (atleast basically) each other, except HC does zero extra damage, it just has a good basic damage. The condottiero can just be meatshield even and have archers or HC of your own behind it and can r-age-ape the HC. (and their own meatshield)
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Edit: oh and rate of fire seems to be even faster than what champion has, 1.93 vs 2.03. And HC has 3.45
Well it help but it’s not that much if you consider the champion 13 attack compared 9 of the condos.
Not if the unit itself does 20 damage to it (after all upgrades on both sides) and attack faster than the HC shoots if it can reach it, which it probably can with its 80 hp and epic speed.
Still with HC they could mix some arbales or scorpion, to me 1 pa could be useful also to raid the economy, and you exploit the stregnth of the condos, wich is that they don’t require upgrede to be created.
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Yes but halbs and cataphract are two melle untis, HC is range units versus a melee one, so it’s a different comparison.
Considering that with “micro” (beacuse yes they aren’t that accurate) they can place more hits one the condos while they are approaching.
Also halbs are trash units, conods are very gold intensive, so i expect that they are a lot more efficent to contrast HC, otherwise it’s makes more sense to use elite skirmisher.
Against HC it does, cause condottiero actually gets to the enemy instead of dying and then kills it in 2 hits, which the champion can’t do even if it had full upgrades and the HC had no armor ones.
If they have arbalests there, but no actual meatshield, they’ll just die all the same. If they have meatshield, let’s say infantry, you can have your own cheap HC which kills it and also some arbs in the mix too, to kill the enemy arbs after the meat is dead. If they have cavalry, you can have genoese crossbowmen and pikes with the condottiero. Condottiero will draw some fire from enemy HC making your pikes last longer. Pikes and genoese kill the cavalry. Then it’s just gg for the HC and arbs. Nothing is still lacking so far. Funnily even, pikes, even when being worse than halbs, you “save” some resources for not having to tech into them anymore than that, condottiero and HC come ready from their respective buildings, easy to get genoese to elite and arbs up and blacksmith.
Also if you wanna go to siege game, if they have scorps, why don’t you have scorps, onager and cheap bombard?
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Also halbs don’t cost gold while HC does.
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