The last dlc from South America gave us some civs which incorporated most of the feedback taken from 3 kindoms DLC. Most of the bonuses are from forum member ideas and some crappy original ideas from the dev team. The pinnacle of such as design is this civ which happens when you run out of stolen ideas and can’t use your brains to think of original bonuses. None of the civ bonuses, this civ has recieved has a good design feel. The only idea that seems to drive this civ is one of the south american civs managed to steal some horses from the spanish. Here is my commentry on their bonuses. Introducing the Mapuche -
Actual team bonus which when combined with Armenians will make them walking outposts.
The only bonuses a civ like this which is meant to be good in feudal age should have been designed as:
Champi-line upgrades are free
Settlement techs are 50% cheaper to research.
One for military and one for economy should be able to power a civ till the tech tree comes into play.
Why can’t devs gets their heads off their a-holes and think by refering classical civs in the game? You don’t need 5 civ bonuses to make well rounded civs.
I think devs are giving bonuses which are easier to implement from a coding perspective like making new buildings and coping code like the pass through damage unique tech from italians. They are not designing civs anymore.
I will admit. I have not bought the DLC nor played the newer civs. But I am not going to either. The game has become pay to win. The only reason champi has been nerfed is because of too much aggression in dark age. Honestly the game needs a different model for revenue instead of just pushing new civs out every 6 months.
Civilisations in AoE2 are not just a combination of unique bonuses that make for good gameplay, they also represent real life people and their culture so they have to make sense in a historical context.
All the Mapuche bonuses fit the civilisation very well thematically even if some of them might seem kinda off for gameplay like the ability to train Spearman and Skirmishers from Settlements.
But I even disagree on the game design perspective because the bonuses also work well together to give Mapuche an interesting counter unit focus. Their missing technologies and bonuses work well together, like Champi Warriors without Squires while having a Cavalry unique unit or Skirmishers without the last armour upgrade but with more HP.
Some bonuses are also not as powerful as you think. Vikings don’t just get more HP they also get +5 attack vs. Cavalry for their Infantry, while Vietnamese have all upgrades for their Archers. The Settlements also train units at less then half the speed (2.15x as long) of a military building so you don’t get a 175 Wood building for 125 Wood, you kinda get a 81 Wood worth in Feudal Age.
I think the Mapuche are one of the best designed civs in a long time, maybe even since the DE release.
No. You could argue any free unit upgrade tech is stolen from the earliest iteration in the Turks and in this case this is the civs scout to boot so it’s more apt than just saying it steals from them.
If regionals do one thing right it’s add new units to give bonuses to without there being risk of precise overlap.
I’m not agreeing with the tone of the original poster but some day we may get more Champi civs and this bonus might belong for that such a civ
Not my point. My point is we have enough regional units for the next decade and a half except maybe for African stuff. I’m just saying the free Champi line upgrades aren’t the exact same as Bulgarians bonus unless they then also get +5 melee armor to boot since we can argue +3 melee armor for Muisca is ripping off Teutons which is a dangerous route of bonus constriction
Perhaps I’m not explaining well. No none of the current civs need free Champi upgrades but one day? Why not?
Agree there. The Champi are a good additon as a Scout cavalry replacement for civs who didn’t have horses.
I would not want another different design for eg African or Ozeanian civs. The name can/should be different, also the appearance (clearly). But NOT a new design than the Champi (when it’s fixed)
Or maybe we’ve already hit rock bottom but some people, not necessarily you, refuse to accept it and think we can reach 70+ civs while keeping things fresh and fun.
That sounds way too negative to me.
That’s true.
More than anything, they’re going overboard with the UUs , really diving headfirst into the RPG genre.
And I agree with that, too.
It will be necessary. And the Ozeanian civilizations shouldn’t be in the game, but that’s another story.
Dropping off +20% food is effectively 3 bonuses in one: 20% faster gather rate, resource lasts 20% longer, and +20% carry capacity. Definitely not a copy of Franks bonus (but is strictly better)
Haven’t played with the mapuche much myself yet, but information can be pretty important. I’ve seen at least one team game that was lost because a team thought they were going to face a unique unit (specifically Plumes) and got caught off guard when the opponent only made the one castle for a unique tech (El Dorado eagle warriors). This is free information, and it comes even if the opponent is walled up. Knowing when an opponent can go for a unique unit is solid information, and it also tells you where (and when) the enemy has fortified (which means fewer games lost to running into defensive castles).
I think they will get used. Bolas riders at least are a solid unit, and they get a discount in imperial age. Mobility and range are quite a strong combination, and adding gold generation on top of that is pretty good. And if the opponent makes too many skirms: Konas can take care of that (and generate gold in the process)
Personally, I’m liking a lot of what I’ve seen in the new civs (though I haven’t played them nearly enough yet). I do think they overnerfed the champis, but I also think that the Tupi Blackwood archers are in a good state right now (somehow strong even without poison arrows, but they die so quickly). I do think it would be interesting if the Tupi were to lose chemistry (maybe poison arrows could get their own visuals), but the design works as is.
At this point, whether the issue is the wording or the bonus values, I am not sure which bonus is better than the other. It might be worth taking a closer look at this. Could this be another topic for SotL?