Teutonic Knights have been buffed for a good while now, so I think it’s a fair time to assess whether or not the long-demanded speed bonus was enough to take them from meme to good.
More than that, I’m curious to hear people’s opinions on the direction the unit was taken. Does it feel better to people now? Did the increase in speed effect their identity to anyone? If it did need further bonuses to bring it from meme to fine, what would they be?
I think it’s somewhere in between but still more towards the meme.
The problem is still the same, slow speed and low pierce armor. I think the Teutons have strong weapons in the Paladin, Halb and SO. The TKs would only be used as a counter to infantry and then their champions are almost always a good alternative.
The question becomes in which situation do you need all that extra armor as opposed to the speedier and more easily avaliable Champion. Against most enemies such as halbs and eagles I’d say Champions are a safer and better alternative as the problem will be to catch the enemy rather than defeating them. What remains is I think as a counter to specialized infantry civs like Goths and Vikings where the +2 Champion might struggle a bit.
If you want to make the TK a good unit in normal games you’d have to give the Elite version +1 pierce armor, otherwise it’s too costly a unit to be instantly wiped by arbalests.
The recent buff would’ve made their SO + Halb push even stronger by countering infantry. But now their new super Champions do the same thing while costing a lot less, so… Yeah, they’re probably still a meme. The only place I can imagine for them now is in some sort of super aggressive, likely all-in, forward Castle drop which combines Teutonic Knights with free Herbal Medicine and Murder Holes for a forward no one is cleaning up without Trebuchets or Cannons. Maybe throw in some Guard Towers too for the extra arrows from bonus garrison space to support TK’s away from the Castle against archers and siege weapons. And if you really want to go nuts with an all-in Castle Age forward, start with a Feudal Age archer rush into Crossbows for more Guard Tower fire power, as the 24 wood discount for farms conveniently pays for 96% of an Archer’s wood cost.
What’s ironic is the champ was buffed, reducing the chances of taking a TK. So the TK would have been used (and liked) more if they hadn’t buffed the champs…
Also “low PA”?? 2PA on infantry is not low. As soon as generic infantry are made more viable things like the TK, jag and HC should inherently see more use even without buffing…
We hardly see throwing axemen(doesn’t need a buff) , we see even fewer karambits (needs a buff way more than the TK does) but we don’t see people saying these need to be buffed as much as wee see these TK threads. Which makes me think they’re mainly driven by teutons fan bois than anything else
The TK like other UU( like the mameluke) is there to support the army against specific threats. How much more should we buff teutons before the fan bois say its enough? Their paladin is already arguably the strongest in the game in multiple situations. Along with the longest list of bonuses out of any race.
TK are situational. I think they would be more viable if teutons got a small discount on tk unit and/or upgrade cost instead of giving extra melee armor to champions, which makes tks even less appealing.
I’ve had opponents mix in TK in their castle-age army to good effect. They might as well, if they have the castle and the resources (and infantry upgrades; they were also using halbs & swordsmen). Those bois hit pretty hard, and don’t die too quickly either.
Well they’re situtional. In 1v1 games vs slavs,bulgarians,franks,Indiana,teutons(yes mirror) and other civs with ■■■■■■ pierce ranged units they work also map needs to be closed due to their movespeed.
Why are there TKs in this composition? Seems you’d be way better off just building more paladins or Halbs. That many siege are only gonna get taken out by other siege or cavalry. If it’s other siege, then cavalry. If it’s cavalry, then halbs do way more damage and the defense is irrelevant since they’re not attacking the tks anyway, they’ll just smoosh through and attack the siege.