So what nerfs do you think japan will get next patch

japan needs some nerfs, they either need bannermen nerfing, a nerf to castle economy, or a nerf to the deflective armour, they literally have units to hard counter everything, its silly, people say japan dont need nerfs, but when ever i face them, i have lost, “they are weak in fuedal” no they really are not, i just dont see what is weak about japan, even the yumi are decent with bannermen and trash units in front of them.


Japan isn’t even high on winrate.

I think they could potentially nerf some of their landmark in exchange for buffing the other landmark no one use.

But other than that they are fine.

Shinto and Gunsmith are the only ones worth a small nerf.


landmarks, units, unique mechanics, all this new shiny stuff to combat the old civs, literally all the new civs got everything the old civs needed, but they just left the old civs in the dirt, the game feels so unbalanced at the moment its unreal. they need to release a patch as soon as possible.

This is a very good example of not balancing on “feels”.

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i mean everyone says rus get a good bonus of 20% with wooden fortress or kremlin, well what about the silver minning japanese get, if im honest, its very strong, 20% stone or 20% gold for each drop off depending what you are minning, and if you are minning both you are passively getting it for the fun of it, not to mention you aint gotta build a landmark or a wooden fortress to get that eco buff. japan have much more than people realise, its become silly how they get so much.

Rus has way more bonus than what you mentioned.
Japan doesn’t have the normal food upgrade for sheep. And they don’t have castle keep.

I encourage you to play them and soon you will discover they are not as idilical as you say.

In fact they are good and fun to play, but not OP.

They get 20% passive from drop gold or stone, but they can’t build a keep until imperial, and get the towncenter to last daimyo costs 2100 stone, and it’s the only way to improve your food eco.

Hence, you have to build your entire food eco around TCs, this have pros and also cons.

They already nerfed shinto and gunsmith, I don’t think none of them are OP right now, maybe the other castle landmark needs a buff or a change. In fact shinto gives you insta monk, so you can place the shiro and go for a relic.

Also if you can give us more details about why you find them so difficult to play against we can give you some tips on how to face it.

Well before the balance suggestions, I would first suggest solving the BUG that the Civ currently has with the Onna Musha (It does not receive the Uma Bannerman Yaw that in theory it should receive) and that was reported a month ago. Here is the link to the topic in the bug section and a reference image:

Outside of that, as suggestions is the combination of unique units: Although the Japanese already have 13 unique units, adding 1 more does not hurt if it is for balance (and we already passed the limit a long time ago, there is no turning back) :

  • ASHIGARU MUSKEETER.- I suggest include the “Ashigaru Muskeeter” or “Ashigaru Arquebusier” to replace the Handcannoner. Following the mechanics of “Fast Ranged Units” that the Japanese have, this one would have more speed (1.125 ->1.25), but a little less attack (35->32) and a little less HP (130->115), and I would use the famous Tan3g4ch1m4 harquebus (I have to write it like that so the autocorrect doesn’t censor it). In case it is very weak that the nerf is only to HP, in any case how I crave this unit.

My 2nd suggestion is for another DLC to create a Japanese variant of “Ikko Ikki”:

  • So that they have “Sohei (Warrior Monks)”, Ronins replacing the samurai, Yamabushi replacing ninjas or Shinto priests, and one or another new bonus.

  • More than a balanced suggestion, it was just a loose idea that I want to share… Well, no, in fact it is the idea that I have so that these historical units (Ronin, Yamabushi, Sohei) can enter the game at least for a variant civ, and that they are not added to the Japanese, which as FauxMusician936 mentioned , they already have enough bonuses and enough counter-units.

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so for 900 stone you get a buff that increases TC fire armour and HP along with an increased farming rate of 50% around TC’s, which is 15% better than most other civs at imperial age, then if you pay 1200 more stone you get another 30% on top of that plus more fire armour and HP to TC’s, using a resource they get passively from mining gold.

for other civs it is 400 wood and 850 gold, to get something that does not even give them as much gathering rate, so in essence in castle you get a better farming economy than most other civs that get it in imperial, so they have great economy, that passively generates gold or stone or both depending on what you are minning, a relatively cheap castle buff that gives armour HP and improved imperial gathering rates in castle, mounted samurai that have deflective armour, bannermen, a unique cavalry unit that has increased damage to heavy units, cheap archers that with the bannermen are most likely on par with normal archers, samurai with deflective armour, dark age upgrades, early samurai, onna Bugatti, lets not get into imperial age tech and units, civ specific relics that give all types of buffs, most of which i most likely dont know about, am i missing anything?.

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You are over exagerating, you can literally say the same exact thing about any other civ.

Ottomans has free units, english has the best farm eco and they get gold from farming, abbasid imperial is insane with all the unique techs, rus have streltsi, a much cheaper and better version of handcannoner, and we can continue like that the whole day, chinese can boost production or get tons of gold from IO, HRE has 40% more to all production near chappel, etc…

I asked you before, what is the exact problem you are facing against japanese and using which civ?

To be honest, samurai spam is like any other MAA spam, and HRE MAA are better than Samurai, you have videos in YouTube testing them, you can check.

Onna Musha it’s bugged, so it’s underperforming hard. Their knights are just regular knights but 10 gold more and with an armor that avoids the first attack. They still lose against french knights. Onna bugeisha is only good in feudal.

Regarding to eco, Abbasid has a better income from food with all the techs, and they got farms discounted same as english.

The passive income from gold veins can’t get you to the last daimyo in a reasonable time or build and spam castles (that you only can build in imperial), you have to get stone.

What I’m trying to say is: every civ has its own passive generation of resources or his discounts and advantages.


Im really not, i was playing japan (as you suggested) and even after a good early raid off the enemy, i was able to come back from it, with a stronger force, the eco upgrade at the TC is much better and easier to acquire than the upgrades for other civs, and the food buffs from it are very nice, i was able to defeat my opponents army despite him having 2 keeps up, on king of the hill, unfortunetly i lost due to not having time, but the aura and food buffs at the TC are easier to get much faster amd give you a much better economy and dont get me started on the civ specific relics you get, that stuff helped so much, from personal experience japan is very very strong in defence and offense compared to other civs.

Then congratulations, I really don’t know what to say if you attach your overcome to the civ being OP. :man_shrugging:

Japan is good, is competitive, but OP? Simply no.

Right now your personal feeling of the civ is being OP, my personal feeling is not being OP, and in aoe4world, being one of the most used civs has 49.6% win rate.

Which league are you in? Which civs did you play when you said you lost all the games against them? And how you lost? In castle? Against samurai spam?

If you don’t tell us these details and just enumerate their buffs as civs we can’t really help you in any way.

Try a bit more matches

I tried more matches and can honestly say japan is so strong, the daimyo manor upgrades dont seem to have an age limit, so if you have a long fuedal battle and you are smart with macro, you can easily get 50% gathering rate from farms in fuedal, they have so many starting build orders its unreal, i was reluctant to try japan, but after trying them i can honestly say they are the most interesting civ, their late gane economy is so good, you can literally spam units without having to worry about food.

You still don’t ask my questions. Which league? Which civs were you using when you lost all matches? How you lost?

In fact they are interesting, you can go fast 2TC, fast bugeisha harass, horsemen with the bannermen is also a good harass in feudal, etc… They have a lot of options, and this makes them interesting.

But they don’t feel OP. Sincerely, any civ feels OP when you don’t know about them and they simply crush you.

If you played japan you will know their food economy in feudal is centered in collecting berry bushes and the free farms around the first landmark, then you can simply go check berry bushes to stop their eco, because the generation of farms isn’t fast enough to a feudal economy.

16 guys in gold get like 120 stone/min, this means you need like 10 minutes with 16 vills in gold to get the last daimyio (assuming you have the previous ones).

Last daimyo is too expensive for a feudal economy. You can get the first daimyo with gold, but then the 600 stone for the next one you will need to get from stone veins, because their melee upgrades from the forges also need stone, and the passive income from gold isn’t enough for that upgrades and the daimyos in a reasonable time.

Also don’t forget that their upgrades to food only apply with the aura around the TC. This means you will get the plain collection if you do farms outside the TC, and this means if you want to stop japan food eco is as easy as dive MAA or knights into the TC.

They need some serious nerfs. Completely OP in 1v1 because their broken early econ.

Then you allow cheap units to be better than other factions units… even Order of the dragon melt to Samurai and Horse Archer…

I think the Town Center Keep Hybrids are what make it OP. Was a fun idea, but they need nerfs.
I dominate as Japan, and get dominated as Japan… and it’s literally all I saw today. 5 Japan enemies in a row.

I refuse to play the broken factions, I’ve dropped them since realizing how OP they are, but apparently the majority of you get off on playing the easiest or most OP faction LoL

Huh? When I play Order of the Dragon, Japanese I feel is an easy matchup. You go attack them in Feudal with your archers + horsemen

Feudal where you’re able to collect 2100 stone? Feudal where you don’t have nodachi upgrade on samurai and weak archers? What are you on about? They are terrible at Feudal. Late game economy so strong you don’t have to worry about food? Thats literally all the late game civs like HRE, English, Chinese/Zhu Xi, Abbasid.