Solution to make india more played in treaty

India needs a Karni Mata buff and Mahouts have to be like spanish lancers, without penalties vs Heavy Infantry, in this way they would work like canons

2 Likes

mahouts main advantage is they are tanky, they shouldnt be better at killing than they currently are.

For 6 pop unit it doesn’t perform as nearly as 2 gendarmes! nor for its cost! add the pathing disaster! mohouts needs alot of improvement

1 Like

yes man you take my words

1 Like

Coincidence ! Just Played a team casual against @Sotorie , And despite his wizardry of microing, his Siege ele weren’t performing well enough, thnx to shorter 30 range !!! I guess slow build time of siege ele also played a role in that somewhere

The export is not enough to finance the acquisition of guns. The consulate is more like a second metropolis than a military building. The export is a trickle and in treaty it practically does not accumulate, and also the units you hire take a long time to arrive. I think India needs to create anti-infantry guns in her castles; also improve the range of their camels with rifle (zamburaks) because they are faster than elephants with rifle and can attack cavalry in a more versatile way such as dragons. Elephants do not replace cannons at all since they are extremely expensive and occupy too much population, they also cost a lot of wood, which in treaty is the most scarce and precious resource after 40-60 minutes of play.

1 Like

I thought about that, my solution is to give to otto consulate a foundry wagon to train falconets and culverins maybe. The great issue of India is killing big armies of infantry. With this they can do it and get near to attack with siege elephants. Other option could be to give howdas more bonus vs artillery in order to work as a culverin.

1 Like

Howdahs have a bonus on artillery and they do a decent job on tht , but low range and slow speed + rate of fire , make it inefficient for killing artillery in long term

1 Like

Thats the point, with more bonus they need less shots. I dont understand why yabusames have that great bonus while Japan can train more units and they have flaming arrows.

1 Like

yea! Yabusame’s have a better armour and are faster too ! thye do the job, faster and surely. While howdahs take their time to, get dressed, reach on time and aim and shoot.

Yabusame are more efficient anti-artillery , than Howdahs are anti-cav. Howdahs , anti-artillery atttac is just and extra side-bonus at best.
A Dutch Consulate, would be so great for India.
or
an Otto/British tech to enable 1 or 2 type of artillery, from castle or enable building a foundary

OR

Enable Independence Option from Consulate just as Japanese Isolation, that provide faster unit train time and enable rocket or some artillery

Howdahs need to become better because they cost 6 pop slots. They should get, at least, the same range than yabusames cause if you need to kill cavalry you can train more zambs faster that move faster too. There arent reasons to train eles right now. I only use siege and flail right now…

I think they should just drop the pop room that elephant units take up. That would improve India a lot

1 Like

The advantage is that they are very resistant and with too much damage. If they had a little more reach, it would be compensated because that way they have to be put into the wolf’s mouth.

GOSTEI DESSA SUGESTÃO. OBRIGADO POR COMENTAR NESSE POST

1 Like

SIM EU NÃO ENTENDO PORQUE NÃO COLOCÃO A POPULAÇAO DE UM ELEFANTE ANTICAVALARIA COM 6 DE POPULAÇAO EN QUANTO OS VAGÕES DE GUERRA DOS ALEMÃES SÃO MAIS BARATOS E TEM 3 DE POPULAÇÃO

3 Likes

Yep. The lack of good artillery for India makes it too hard to overcome civs with tons of fully upgraded cannons by the 30’ mark. Their only artillery is an expensive elephant with 7 population each who barely have range to hit a fort.

=\

3 Likes

HI!

Going to add my perspective since India has been my favorite civ for many years but was actually one of the last civs I played much until I discovered how to use them and make them good.

My experience comes from thousands of games of Legacy FFA, but a few years ago took my TR rank to a Major and used mostly India. especially in 1v1. Just as long as your not up against Ports, or China you have a chance. So even with the poorer state India was in then can be made a very effective civ. But I play them a little different.

First The economy, I heavy value a good wood haul to start. India can run low on food or coin and manage ok, but when they are wood poor they come to a screeching halt. I see so many fur trade booms emphasis on so much coin and then they only have so little wood to fight with get in tricky situations. Sure you have 1300 wood to use later but one should not depend on that early on. You may need urumi.

When to trade: well there are 2 ways to go, in a team game a later trade is better but its harder to be as aggressive as India needs to be. A sensible time would be 5 minutes left or send fur trade with 5:40 remaining. a more risky attempt that can leave you food starved and cause a cascading set of problems would be to shoot for 4 minutes. But that also gives little time to coordinate buying units and sending the large consulate armies. After many games had ended I mostly found I had more coin than I ever needed and would be better off not getting wood or food starved. So here is one of the keys that really made India strong and viable to me in TR even with slow train speed. Is not being too greedy with fur trading earlier… with like 6 minutes left before trading a big safety buffer of food is gained. You may have less coin, but you can really delete down villagers since after that will only be collecting food and do not need 100 on food. This gives you a window for a very strong overwhelming army and also helps mitigate the train times where you often have 30-40 pop in training at most times. As long as you are getting the better of the kill ratios and not just letting that extra pop go to waste then its like “doubling” your eco in compared in how effective your opponent can use their resources. Use that extra pop for more high pop units than just spamming out tons of inf.

The objective then is to win the center battle, blitz the center for a FB with sepoy building and then hammer hard to the defenses and break through…

Some things to consider about India differently than other civs. Most civs flood units in to hold a line, and eventually one side breaks to move it forward. India however fights in waves so one might lose an inch of screen to gain 2 then lose one, then gain 2 more. One has to kind of with draw ones troops back to the barracks as new waves comes to reinforce.

Urumi or natives.-- India has some good deck options for TR because it easily maxes out ECO cards and have ample military cards to try different strategies. I used to play with the chakrams and war elephant card. And they certainly are good to consider VS. some match ups. Such as the Brittish where chakrams will really help eat up musket civs. The problem with these is that they eat up a lot of coin and shorten your window to win. I much prefer urumi. and for 750 food that is almost nothing for India and they really add an interesting dynamic to the indian army that really all your waves should be focused around. Building up and retreating until your shipments arrive. Then branching out again. Urumi are great with mahouts since they will create synergy for a melee wall that kills everything and protects them from pike units. This forces the player to make heavy cav which is expensive and India has other great counters for. I like to combine them with extended fortifications so I can make 3-4 towers where I am fighting and pop them out at different flanks.

I tend to rely on sepoy more than howdas, but a few do not hurt… 2-3 is enough just to use as sniping units for cav that get too close to the front lines or sensitive things. I never much liked using India like a skirm goon civ and I think those that do are the ones that find it weaker.

I also do not make many gurkas. 5-10-15 is enough. Just to pressure them at range. The problem is a sweeping heavy cav push can ruin a whole army and that can be very difficult to come back from. So lots of sepoy sometimes get sacrificed to protect the key components that allow them to surgically rip apart armies and bases. If they do send in a cav charge use Sepoy in melee.

There are always times and civs that break the rules. Aztec can make lots of gurkas, Vs Lakota, make howdas and mahouts, etc…) And if what you are doing is not working try switching it up, or splitting the battle to a second place. Never be fixed… its like port players who get fixed on making jinetes when no one is making cav… don’t do that!

Camels-- units I never made but may be viable now that train times are faster but still I think camels in TR do not belong as are just too weak and take up too many card spots to make worth while. If one can spam them out in a low pop situation that could be useful but costly. Remember to make 20 tigers at all time its often the difference between a holding battle and winning steam roll.
No real need to make Rajputs. Upgrading flail elephants is optional but not recommended. They can be a cheap way to take out large FB’s quickly but with walls the AI will stupidly attack segments that don’t matter. But also can be a low pop way to cause some pings on your enemy screen for attention and soften up walls to make a jump to later. or just make them think you are to send troops there.

I know there is a lot of conjecture on siege eles but really they are great. The speed is not to be taken lightly but they should tie culverins in range… or have a resist from siege which I think is actually a better way to make them not TOO op at killing falconetes yet not dying to culvs so easily and essentially cancel each other out per pop and cost. India may never have a good answer for port and Japans long range mortars. but they are death to India as you cant stop them and cant protect your FB.

Mahouts… are… awesome… and… risky. well they will kill infantry faster than cannons can but you gotta kinda watch after them and micro them like you would a cannon to targets. Running from bad engagements, and getting through the ranks to attack the right units… this is where the urumi waves really help clear the path. And all that area melee damage is just so magnificent to see working right.

Start Consulate armies. Everyone expects french gendarmes and they are good and I think DE nerfed it for that matter. But what I always liked better was the 5 falconet or any cannon shipment really. When India is not supposed to have cannons and then does and you have this big start army it can be quite strong.

Other great cards besides the standard ones are the one that adds the castle build limit, extra 10 tigers,

If you are using a ranged mansabar put them in stand still stance and they will live longer.

When to use Taj… it can be tempting to try to use it to breach a wall and get in a eco. For inexperienced players this can work and be GG or even a rage quit. but for a pro you will likely get blocked or consumed and lose your army and momentum. So I mostly use it to either save my base from a side flank, or more regularly if I get in a tough spot and need an army again. For that it can really save you… with bases be patient, and blast a big big holes to get through before committing to over extending to try to snipe the TC.

Its a challenging civ and strong and well rewarding for those that use it right. Have fun GL!

2 Likes

ótima analise gostei muito da sua explicação, vejo que você realmente e um cara que joga com a índia
mais eu ainda acho que os desenvolvedores deveriam por algo no jogo pra índia treinar mais rápido e ter um canhão pesado ou falconete. muito obrigado por comentar suas dicas são realmente boas

2 Likes

Obrigado, ao lê-lo, preciso fazer algumas edições para ter certeza de que estou claro em minhas explicações. Eles são o meu civ número um para jogar pela FFA.

Tenha em mente que Sepoy realmente treine alguns pontos mais rápido do que Janissary (bem para o legado, tudo o que sei está em legado)
e para ser o edifício mais rápido civ precisa ser um civ de treinamento mais lento. Estou bem com todos os tempos de trem. Exceto por camelos… se eles os fizessem treinar rápido poderia ser viável… mas eu ainda duvido que isso a não seja preencher uma lacuna pop em um exército moribundo.
O que eu gostaria de ver é fazer com que os carregamentos cheguem mais rápido… Segurando 40 segundos por 19 pop é por isso que a maioria das pessoas não usá-los … mas realmente é isso que torna a Índia igual em poder TR para civs de canhão. Então, se eles pudessem polir isso para gostar metade do tempo… poderia tornar a Índia super forte sem mudar a mecânica.

Só para reiterar Urumi/ mahouts são combo de poder da Índia que faz o canhão DPS fazer. Dar à Índia canhões confiáveis com o cerco muito rápido ele iria torná-los realmente fortes e trancá-lo em um combo gurka howda canhão fazendo-o perder sua maneira única de lutar.

Thank you, in re reading it I need to make some edits to make sure I am clear in my explanations. They are my number one civ to play for FFA.

Keep in mind Sepoy actually train a few points faster than Janissary (well for legacy, everything I know is in legacy)

and to be the fastest building civ need to be a slower training civ. I am pretty Ok with all the train times. Except for camels… if they made them train fast might be viable… but I still doubt it other than to fill a pop gap in a dying army.

What I would like to see though is to make the shipments arrive faster… holding out 40 sec for 19 pop is why most people do not use them… but really this is what makes India equal in TR power to cannon civs. So if they could buff that to like half the time… could make India super strong without changing the mechanics.

Just to reiterate Urumi/ mahouts are Indias power combo that does the DPS cannon do. Giving India dependable cannon with the really fast siege ele would make them really strong and lock it into a cannon gurka howda combo making it lose its unique way to fight.

U have no idea that treaty is played other than Andes as well . India is good on Andes but one of the weakest on other maps .

1 Like