Solution to make india more played in treaty

U have no idea that treaty is played other than Andes as well . India is good on Andes but one of the weakest on other maps .

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verdade, índia so se salvava com a carta de time russa de treinamento e com os upgrades dos nativos incas. e contra civilizações mais jogo antigo mais no novo e quase impossível de ganhar no tratado

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india is pretty infamous for their amount of running.

sim mais o que mim deu raiva foi que o meu post foi para tratado e tem pessoas que não entenderão o o termo do post, as alterações serviriam pra supremacia mais acaba sendo usada em jogos muito longos, ate porque todas as civilizações do jogo são muito fortes em jogos longos.

Here is a game I just played with my India TR strategy outlined above. It was Vs a lower rank of 2nd lt. but he chose the map Lrg Texas, and the civ Ports, So I counter picked with the best chance to give him, which was India.

Overall the game lasted 47 minutes on a large map. How did this happen… our armies met at the center for the start. 3 secs prior i put over 50 sepoy in melee and then used my peace treaty and walked my army right on top of his at the end of it, the sepoy and tigers and mahouts in melee with 5 cannons and skirms hitting from the sides pretty much wiped him clean and I still had over 200 pop… So I then rush to his walls and begin making my FB. as I get down to 199 pop… I delete 50 vils and get up to 7 siege eles and start hammering his walls. When he sends culvs I just send them to the other side of the army to hit the walls on that side and flip flop. Mean while he is flooding me with cav to try to get to them again. and each time… sepoy in melee come to same me. When hes all behind walls, I then started to make a few more Gurka than ussual. Trying not to make Howdas… Do some math and see how cheaply I spent coin to win. I spent about 13k coin. out of over 50 left after upgrades (I didn’t pay attention to scores) at the end I had 100k unspent res and he had 12k.
I basically ended up draining him before getting fully into his eco, but the hole I was making was getting pretty wide ready for something soon.

Just look at these numbers and tell me how India is weak.

Player Units Buildings

Made Killed Lost Kill/Loss Ratio Destroyed Lost
Na### 593 268 569 0.47 22 333
HowlingWolfPAw 343 564 316 1.78 33 88||

Player Food Wood Gold

Na#### 79494 63505 82906
HowlingWolfPAw 136836 68681 92376

Na#### Military Units
Unit Produced Died Survived %

Explorer 1 0 100.00%
Crossbowman 22 22 00.00%
Hussar 196 194 01.02%
Culverin 11 9 18.18%
Dragoon 92 80 13.04%
Mortar 7 7 00.00%
Minuteman 24 24 00.00%
Veteran Cassador 194 177 08.76%
Black Rider 11 11 00.00%
Native Scout 1 1 00.00%
Horse Artillery 4 4 00.00%
Tupi Blackwood Archer 30 30 00.00%

HowlingWolfPAw Military Units
Unit Produced Died Survived %

Mahout Lancer 10 6 40.00%
Howdah 3 0 100.00%
Urumi Swordsman 9 0 100.00%
Brahmin 1 0 100.00%
Axehilt the Tame Tiger 36 28 22.22%
Flail Elephant 1 0 100.00%
Sepoy 176 147 16.48%
Gurkha 38 9 76.32%
Siege Elephant 11 9 18.18%
Brahmin 1 0 100.00%
Wagner the Pet White Tiger 35 27 22.86%
Mansabdar Sepoy 1 1 00.00%
Falconet 5 5 00.00%
Roger’s Ranger 16 14 12.50%

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running only work at low level , at high level running will more likely cost u game .

well there is difference between running and jumping… To be clear do not rush into a defended base hap hazardly, you can not afford to risk losing units recklessly. They just train too slow. but if you are in a bad position taking bad trades, and not protecting something super important then it can be wise to jump battle locations, because India is a fast builder and they may not have good defenses in that area. So there is opportunity in that. Sneaking some sepoy around bases can really make your enemy focus you down and pay attention to other areas. In my battle above I made very few walls post TR. he tried to make some but I kept him so busy at his walls and was just going to push harder if he tried anything like a base trade.

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India coin-eco is weak, they only have 2 HC cards and Karni Mata (Thats a weak bonus). After fur trade if the game go long (team games) you wont get more money cause expensive units as eles (most of them inneficient too).

They dont have canons, a great issue to kill mass infantry (you need wood crates and mahouts havent got the best pathfinding, also I see them too weak for a 7pop unit/ maybe with the new patch I try to use urumis with the new HC splited points)
Consulate’s canons arent an option in treaty, export is too slow to gather and you wont vills on the battlefield having sepoys.
Mansabdars are slow to go to the battlefield quickly unlike daymios and you can lose them around the map (I would add a Hotkey for that).
Also India doesnt get drummers, its infantry is slower than others while Japan gets drummers and golden pavillion.

About eco indians dont get any special bonus aside vills from HC and otto(4) while China gets more than 2 factories (PT+Factory+ Germans) and 10 extra vills (20 on legacy).
In the same way Japan gets 2 arsenals, a church, a bank and shrines that dont need to be gathering wood, they can change between 4 resources.
About Karni, its bonus is ridicoulous compared with most civs.

Someone will talk about cows, China can have a cow boom and Japan gather more XP thanks to a church, a spanish consulate, shrines and torii gates. Where is the Indian bonus?? Also Spanish consulate boost crates, that could be great thanks to India being the Asian that gets more crates (aging up and wood ones) BUT they dont have acces to them.

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It sounds like India is not the civ for you. Its not the easiest or strongest but not all civs can be. I do think its harder to pull off a win in a team game because of feeding and doubling up.

Those are a lot of complaints but are really not well founded.

  1. you say India coin gathering is weak… but you have a fur trade… which adds 25% real percent to all food gathered which is an extremely fast gathering resource. What you are describing comes from a long game when more civs will also be hurting for a resource. If you use a sepoy dependent army instead of a gurka howda, you will see that coin last a looong time. I only had 1 coin card plus fur trade in my deck. Its actually an advantage to not need so many cards because you can use them for more military techs.

  2. Siege ele is a cannon… and a good one if you use them right. They get consulate cannon. Which are not nothing… in that game I just gave stats for my cannons were alive a long time and gave me lots of value… 2.1- Your neglecting to mention 20 tigers as a bonus to an army, and also how India has special units that do the DPS a cannon can do.

  3. I didn’t send a single wood crate that last game and had ample wood to fight with. I had about 20k at start of fight after upgrades… As India wood is very important… I would rather run out of coin.

  4. Mahout pathing is bad, yes, but use them with Urumi and the Urumi help clean up the counters and quickly make way for mahouts.

  5. Yes but they are still worth making, I really only make the sepoy one. It is always good to cycle the idle military button every once in a while… any unit can get lost or idle.

  6. They do not have to be fast… in TR its generally a fixed battle not a lot of kiting or need to chase things like that. Think hammer and anvil style fighting. the Sepoy are the anvil they build and stay by the FB. the hammers are the Elephants, urumi, tigers, that then try to reach out for a strike like a hammer. Fast sepoy would just be ridiculous because of their high Hp, range and melee damage.

  7. I do not know why you are comparing to China. If we compare most civs to China will find some eco lacking options. The Indian free villager is not nothing, and otto 4 vils is like a free card shipment. India almost keeps up with ports in vill production. Vs this 2nd lt. I out villager him and I stayed in age 1 much longer than he. When do you make your cows? I do this in transition to age 3.

  8. you dismiss the karni mata but that 10% stacks on all upgrades. so that is a potential 10 villager increase with no pop, unlike chinas bonus of 20 vils that cost pop. That makes it equal to or better than a factory so not sure why you think it is so bad.

  9. India gets a XP boom… Think its nothing? by the time the game ended I was up 5 shipments. (granted I got a lot of kill XP) I was at my full strength and hes still waiting for his techs to come in. This also helps with the villager boom as once you start making them early are sending cards pretty fast.

India is one of my main civs with aztecs, I like different civs.
1-I forget tigers, I use both, better with pumas from TP haha.

2-Karni doesnt work in that way, you can check it with UI, its like eco theory, but worse cause map restricted.

3-Mansabdars take longer to get Battlefield, they could use that HC military points added instead of be trained in Charmine gate. Why sepoy only?? Gurkha is good too, better now that take 1pop instead 2, same with eles but SLOW. This is a great issue if you are far from your base, and I am always in front of enemy walls.

4-I compare with both asians, not with China. China gets more vills and Japan gets XP, no unique bonus for India.

5-France has fur trade but they get coin cards too. And Iro is not the best civ in TR.

6- The wood is not an issue with India thanks to crates, I build tons of barracks, stables and castles, I know about it.

7-I dont use Howdas or Mahouts, I prefer camels instead. Eles cost too much pop. Obviously I use siege eles, flail ones too. Both are good to take down enemy bases but siege eles arent the best “culverins”. They buffed them with pop reduction and thats good.

8-I like to use Taj Mahal to rebuild tons of buildings in FB.

9- Consulate is not an option in TR, you cant train canons because you will run out of export, faster with 50vills less.

10- If you get that wood your Fur trade will be weaker, I prefer wait until crates, 20k will run out very fast if you use mahouts as you said and sending urumis, that crates are a must. Also a good treaty match is longer than 47 minutes.

11-XP boom is good but enemys will have sent every card nevertheless you do (more than 47min). Also training cows have a cost that slow your age up. I prefer do it in V, keeping food to age up fast. Also trading cows with allies help a lot with wood crates, but others have cheaper factories for that job.

12-About villagers, at the end every civ will have max vills. Its good but Its not a lategame bonus, NA can do the same but their ecos arent the best with that. The same for Germans uhlans in TR. Otto consulate could be more than 4villagers, maybe a foundry wagon??

13-Indian consulate is the worse for TR, only crates and units, no techs or buildings. I have tried british surgeons, but field hospitals arent worth it in TR. They could work as new african priest, healing units while fighting. In this way they would be more used in Supremacy too.

@Sotorie @vitorcxb20

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which is obviously why that works in flokos games.

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boa ideia seria muito bom ter um vagão desse pra criar artilharia mais seria mais balanceado para era 4 e custasse 1600 de exportação

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I bee playing them for years, and it seems we play the same civ but not the same way. And I think you are finding India lacking because you are playing it like a Euro civ with skirm/ howdas, but to make that work you really do need cannon. But if you play India the way India was meant to be played as a more aggressive melee civ then that does not seem to be such an issue for me, and the occasional batches of cannon do wonders.

  1. How does Karni Mata work? Was it changed for DE? (note I don’t play DE) It has always worked by providing a 10% bonus to the total res gathered under it to my knowledge

  2. Mansabars having to walk is like a reward to your enemy that had to work hard to kill them lets not make India Meme worthy lame OP. Its a nice fun Niche civ that can be good vs some civs and maps.

  3. India gets a free vill bonus with every shipment. that is pretty nice… also their best abilty, most OP ability, the TAJ malal man… how can you deny that other civs would not like this? in the game I just played I used it to completely take out his start army in under 30 sec. Giving him no time to react and losing almost nothing for his very expensive army.

  4. India does not need nearly as much coin as France does. Unless you play it the way you do spamming out weak camel units avoiding wood cost. which leads to 7…

  5. Why not? Mahouts are great… I made 11 of them, 3 for free, Look at all he had to try to do to stop them and that army still prevailed. so 8 mahouts, cost what like 1800 wood, plus about 70 tigers, for all my cavalry needs. Food is basically free for me, I don’t care how much food I spend, because I early traded and have ample amounts and plenty coming in.

  6. yes the taj is best when your FB is about to get broken and you have too much army in production. Or to save from a side flank to your main base.

  7. So what do you do with your consulate? not spend it? I admit I do not always spend it, but at a certain point I do. Especially if the game does get drawn out and I do have to go full economy again and mine for coin. then I use those to fill out the gaps and change my fighting style to see if they get locked into fighting me the old way.

  8. Its about balance and how you play the civ. I use much cheaper coin units that provide better kill ratios than camels. If I had played India the way most people try to the game would have gone much longer, especially on a large map. But when you leverage India this way it doesn’t… even vs Ports, their known counter civ. (which he could have played better making some muskets instead of jinetes)

  9. Yes Euro civs have ways of getting XP too, but they are also paying 1500 coin to get those 2 factory cards in age 4. When I first started I waited until age 5 too, but its actually better to make them in age 3 transition. You get your villagers out faster and it all cascades to like an extra 100 pts at end of TR.

  10. You have to plan to be able to delete down. If our indias met and you did not delete down, I would drain you with extra forces… if you did delete down our eco to match then you will not have the food to supply it for long. If you leverage all to make the most out of the fur trade its greedy and costly.

  11. Its kind of an advantage really to not need techs so one can spend all all ones export on units, 4 free vills for one in age 2 is bigger than a free bank in age 4, and does not count towards total vils. India has some very nice buildings, and I certainly would not want to lose my Taj mahal, but unlike most other civs, they can get by fine without them. Other civs are severely handi capped when they lose a factory or wonder, but to India they are just icing on the cake.


jesus, cara você tem bons argumentos.

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Also to note a 1 pop mansabar for sepoy or gurka would be really good. But I do not use them in my start army, I get the 16 roger rangers from the brits to start, and then only make them if the opponent is either really devoted to muskets or they are behind walls. When you delete down a bunch you can make more after getting a good established battle. but careful to not over commit to them as a hussar raid can turn the tide of the game if you lose it and have no sepoys left. You can see just by how many that survived I was making them later once I was already winning

Usually you go gendarmes for your start army though and then switch to brit cons for the HP bonus

Why? Its expected… and I believe they nerfed the numbers for it, yet not for other start armies. So hopefully they will have totally different coutners expecting 12-15 gends vs. 5 falconets and 16 roger rangers. Which I will protect. That army stayed with me most of the game…( 2 rangers even survived 7 mins of fighting) he used a lot of his culverins and cav spam just to get to them, payed off way more than some gends when his start army is half dragoons and black riders.

You can either react to their army, or try to get them to react to yours, its a delicate balance.

I only used France once I hit age 5 then I boom for it until a few minutes before TR end then switch to Brits and make my army then.

For those that wonder, I send the cheaper consulate army card as my 2nd-3rd card going into age 2. Set to ottos and make the 4 vills then switch to Ports, by then you gathered enough coin to age up and age up with cheaper food (I use 7 vils on food once I’m in age 2 and new vils are all coin). I then switch all coin to food and some on wood (12?) and start gathering for my cows. then I just eat all my hunts up and switch those vils in the area to coin or whatever the map dictates. Rushing to age 4 is not a priority as no factories to get to. well then I stay on port consulate until I can get to age 5, then a lot of vills go to wood so I can make all my paddies while it slowly releases the ports. Then i set to france, and late game send some crates and then by the end stay on brits.

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I guess it might be preference as the rest of your build seems correct. But falcs usually are really easy to snipe in the start fight, whereas gendarmes can more easily win it in your favour, I think. But hey if you can keep them alive, you keep doing you for sure :slight_smile:

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Most people do not build too many culvs like they would vs a Euro civ as they do Vs India. S0 having 5 falcs with 3 siege eles needs a lot of pop to deal with. mean while you still have 3 mahouts and 20 tigers to strike out as a hammer. And position to flank etc… The key is getting them to react and off their guard which why I used the peace intervention at the start of TR and just put all my melee sepoy right on top of everything. Maybe not for all players but he was really unable to react to it since all he could have done was run some Dragoons away, and he kinda did, but that is a sacrifice to the heart of his army. I bet my cannons really only got like 1-2 shot off after unpacking. (note that does not work well vs all compositions, but he was lacking a heavy inf unit so it works wonders)

Before his last dragoons were even gone 80% of army was moving towards base. Do not get caught up with flies!

That’s when I deleted down, spam a FB and hit with an even bigger heavier wave… man I love this civ.

I send 4 vills in 2nd age, then go France until TR end.
Taj Mahal was nerfed, nerfing your units’ speed.
I dont rush to 4, I hit the wonder with a vill and keep the auto building. I gather in transition to age up to 5 at the end of that wonder. Then I have upgraded paddies to wait last upgrades without leave natural res.

About Howdas, I dont see them efficient, they are expensive and enemies can focus on them easily. Same for Howdas. I have to try Urumis with that military HC points, but a bit buff to that age 4 card could be nice like less time or a bit more units in order to mass them easier. Also camels train faster now, being other option

About consulate a Bank, batches of 10 units or a factory are better than units for 1 time, the same as aztec’s big buttons. Also Port consulate is useless for indians cause mughal architecture, and if you use it for wonders you will get that “saved” food in few seconds, thats minimum.

The consulate’s units cant be there too much, they will be killed. I repeat that a 47min treaty match is not a good example of a treaty game, which are longer most times and export run out.

About your age 2, with both trickles you dont need any villager on wood to keep TC working, only 2-3 to building or upgrades. I change to wood in 3rd for keep 3TC, aging up with Tower, I build both TC.

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