Some changes I would like to see

  1. Supplies: Infantry units except Eagles and Spear units cost -20% food. 20 because most numbers in AoE2 are divisible by 5. This change affects equivalents of Champions like Samurais, Jaguar Warriors, Berserks and Teutonic Knights.

  2. Italians: (added) University itself also costs -33%. Maybe change the bonus to a better number say, 35%. Age up discount bonus increased to 20%.

  3. Steppe Lancers: -1 attack, -15g cost. Elite upgrade a bit cheaper.

  4. Cumans: Free Elite Skirmisher upgrade. (atm Cumans are bottom 3 consistently but are ignored for talks about buffing). I wanted to give the Cumans a non-situational bonus. The TC, SW and Ram bonus is quite situantional.

  5. Spanish: Faster gunpowder attack bonus changed to Castle Age UT. Inquisition changed to civ bonus. Bloodlines and Arson do not cost gold.

  6. Blacksmith and University disabled in Post-Imperial Matches.

  7. Elite Eagle Warrior upgrade provides the Xolotl Warrior stats change, which is provided in Post-Imperial starts.

  8. Chinese: Technologies are 12% or 15% cheaper always. Since technology cost is naturally inflated, that is Bow Saw costs double as compared to Double Bit Axe for the same effect, I see no point in having a staggered effect.

  9. Vikings: Wheelbarrow and Hand Cart cost -66% in resources and time rather than -100%. Infantry units +15% or +20% HP starting in Feudal Age - same argument as Chinese technlogy bonus.

  10. Vietnamese: Team bonus changed to “Enemy positions visible at start of the game”.

  11. Atlatl: Upgrades Elite Skirmishers to Imperial Skirmishers.
    Stats of Imperial Skirmisher - same as what it is now but with +1 range.
    Comparison of Atlatl ES and proposed Imperial Skirmisher - extra attack bonus and +1p armor.


are we sure they need buffs still?


again, why?

the point of the staggered effect is that you can delay grabbing a tech and get it cheaper overall. so for example if you buy the militia line upgrades in imp, they are cheaper then if you get them as they become available.

The major balance change was implemented literally last week. I just prefer keep current balance at least 3 months and see more data in the ladder and upcoming major tournament (Hidden cup 4) to determine we really need those changes.

Also, your list is not a priority issue in current situation. More urgent issue is that how we can balance two DLC civs.


and working on bugs, stability, and other such problems.

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What’s the point of having these?

Yes, probably. Also university is a 1 time or 2 time thing. So it just helps them reach their potential.

Thought it would be cool.

Yes, we can argue that.

If balance comes, all civs can have a balance. They won’t release a patch just for these 2 civs.

there is no point, but disabling them also means that you are eliminating a potential error a player could make. if people make these buildings despite not needing them, that is on them. you should reward players for making good decisions, not reward them by taking away the ability to make BAD decisisions.

but it changes nothing, so again, why. you’re literally asking them to change the game, for nothing.

Nah, it will be fine.

then its fine to leave it as is. if someone chooses to make it, and loses because he invested a little wood into two buildings he didn’t need, they can learn from those mistakes.

I would personally add siege engineers to their tech tree, instead of discounting the building. Since it’s an indirect buff (you would save 33% of it) to their BBC, which is their only decent siege unit.

I agree on the 20% cheaper age up.

Something like that it’s already been implemented for games like BR, if I’m not making it gives them the stats of a cavalier.

Most of those UU are already unique and have a balanced cost. Samurai in my opinion is the only exception, so it would be enough to find a change only for them.

They lack bracer, so maybe a skirm bonus isn’t that useful…

I more or less can agree on the rest…

i completely forgot about that portion of his post. can you imagine vikings with cheaper berserks? celts with cheaper woads?


That only activates in Post-Imperial. I want that to activate with EEW upgrade.

Just in the theme of Supplies. Affecting similar units. The most expensive infantry unit TK goes from 85 food to 68 food. Berserks/ Woads go from 65 to 52 food.

Yes, I can imagine.

Skirms can really complement Cuman Cavalry by countering Halbs. I just wanted to give Cumans a non-situational bonus. Thought this will be the best seeing their weakness to archer civs.

I am really wondering about the Italian tech tree. They only have full Archery Range. Stable is decent. All other land options are slightly off. I wouldn’t mind siege engineers to buff their siege.

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Yeah, neither civs need buffs. sorry not sorry.

if only cumans had a unit that could murder halbs at range and not worry about being attacked back by them.

But why? What is the purpose?

Ok but berserkers and TK don’t need buff, and onestly neither more “visibility”. Supplies was implemented because champs were almost never used even against the units that were supposed to counter.

You would end up buffing even more already strong units.

Without bracer? They do a poor job… Yes yes, they still are a good answer to archers and pikes, but SO and SR are an even better answer.

You would end up buffing a civ that isn’t that used or crucial…

Well, considering that their BBC lose to franks ones, and that with the new uni discount, SE would be cheaper, it would finally gives an identity to the Italians, of a civ that should age up faster and go for arbs+BBC, both FU.

The rest of the siege unit would still be bad, with all of them lacking the last upgrade.

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They already have that, but that comes a bit too late.

Doesn’t matter much against halbs.

They won’t work against halbs, which are the main problem.

Not necessarily, in castle age manganels are enough, and later on they have the time to research at least onager in time. Also they can get to SR earlier, thanks to their rams bonus.

In the you would buff the skirms in an age when they don’t really need a buff. Going for knights right away is better for cumans, without waiting for the ranges.

5 damage against 6, and less range. Kipchaks and siege counter them better.

They do work against halbs. SO with ground attack shred them to pieces, and SR with 270HP takes a lot of hits from an halb (13 atk), so in the meantime kipchaks can kill them.

They still have that. It’s just that their win rate is bottom 3.

This I think is a reasonable addition, or an upgrade available for mesos in the stable for them, they’re very hard to get unless someone is careless and allows you to convert a stable or you’ve got monks inside their base so you’re probably about to win anyway in the latter, and the former is an error on their part that can be easily avoided by either not putting stables as far forward or by pressing the delete key + they can also remove your ability to create them by destroying the stable and you cannot just rebuild another - since this mechanic is available in-game already I don’t see a problem with the unit remaining viable in imperial age if you can keep the stable alive

The why question is a bit harder though because of previously stated reasons that this is very difficult to pull off and depends on your opponent making an error, it isn’t going to be seen in very many matches so you could say this is going to be a useless feature too that doesn’t add much for any development time invested in it

edit- it could also impact diplo as you can get someone to build a stable for you to convert, but lots of things are unbalanced in diplo