Some complaints about northerners

[Urban_Hunter]

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General:

Throwing Axeman

• giving him another tag is a huge nerf. According to the update log, the developers are trying to make him a regular archer, but only worse. He does not get any benefits from being a “ranged”, only vulnerability against those who counter “ranged”. The northerners do not have any upgrades that improve the “ranged” tag. All upgrades are targeted, for one specific unit. That is, he was simply harshly lowered.

To solve this problem, I propose returning his range to 9, removing the “ranged” tag, and making his health the same as the ulfsark.

Hirdman

• I don’t really understand why it’s needed. A useless unit for killing cavalry. No buffs from the gods, like the Egyptians. Because of it, Bragi’s buff for ulfsarks was nerfed. The Norsemen didn’t need the Hirdman in the original game because they didn’t have a unit who counters by cavalry. Because their only archer wasn’t designated as “ranged”. A very bad addition.

“Stables”

• the original idea of the Norsemen was that by building a single structure you could build throwing axemen against infantry, raiders against archers and ulfsarks against everyone else. The enemy could not understand what to prepare for, and the player could quickly adapt to the enemy’s strategy without building additional structure. Now, when a player builds “stables”, the enemy immediately understands that he needs to train hoplites even before the player starts building an army. In addition, instead of two active barracks, the player is now forced to build two buildings, one of which will stand idle, because hersirs can train in the temple. A very bad idea for the early game and absolutely pointless for the late game. If the player does not need huscarls or siege engines, then there is no point in building a hill fort (the structure simply turns into another tower). GODIS are not built before the age 3 anyway, what’s the problem, I do not understand this change at all. Simply put, another nerf.

“Stables” now require their own production speed improvement. (Another nerf).

To solve this problem I propose to move all units from the “stables” to the hill fort and return the raider to the longhouse. I think Freyr will be very happy. (He will be the one who suffers the most from the introduction of this structure).

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Minor Gods

Heimdall

• Einherjar - a brilliant rework of the unit.
• Undermine - I like it.
• Safeguard - Very controversial. The idea of the ability was that at age 2 it raises the HP of towers and walls to the level of age 3 upgrades. That is, the tower of the northerners at age 2 had 1100 HP. The enemy could not storm this tower until age 3. Also, the towers became 25% (50%) cheaper, which meant -25% wood and -25% gold. That is, the player built 50% more towers with the same resource production. This was a guarantee of map control.
  Now we have a 50% discount on gold (of which there is already a lot by dwarves) for towers, walls, hill forts, temples and city centers. That is, now this upgrade is aimed at age 3 games and above. No benefits for age 2. It was made cheaper by 100 wood, while it became more expensive by 2 favor, which is not something you can quickly chop down in the forest. Favor is given only for hersirs or fights, so you need to train more hersirs to get this upgrade - it’s not a discount. It’s very expensive, and most importantly, it takes a long time. Now this ability does not fulfill its function. It is not applicable for age 2 games. In addition, Heimdall was the only god in the entire game who buffed only towers, and not all defensive buildings at once. This was very unique. Now after moving to age 3, towers can no longer be built.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

It’s just not serious.

• Rigsthula - A very strange addition. Aging up is already very fast, there is no need to speed it up. Speeding up research also does not make a big difference. It would only help Freyr. I will be able to use the speeding up of unit training only in the late game. Again, an upgrade aimed at the late game, which is not achieved due to cotton towers. I did not like this addition at all. At age 2, I need additions for age 2, not for age 4.
• I approve of the conversion of arctic winds to skadi. (never used drakars anyway lol)

I don’t know what to do with Heimdall’s upgrades. One of them has become more useless than before, and the other is not needed until the mythic age.

Bragi

He wasn’t very good at first, except for his fire weapon, but now he’s become really bad.

• Flaming Weapons Weakened
• Call of Valhalla Weakened and useless 0.5 favor (how many ulfsarks do you need to make die to order yourself an age 2 myth unit?)
• Swine Array Nerfed. Now buffs a useless unit.
• Thurisaz Rune useless then, useless now. 0.25 hp regen doesn’t have time to happen, games end in 16 minutes. Speed only works on giants and einherjars.
• Long Serpent This is a really good buff.

Terrible god.

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Loki

• Eyes in the Forest - This is well done.

The rest is very bad. Let’s first look at how it was before.

HERSIRS AND MYTHICAL UNITS are the basic units for Loki.

• What did the Hersirs get - movement speed. They could be used to raid the enemy and earn summoning points.
• What did the mythical units get - they were cheaper, you could train them more often.
• What do the Hersirs get from Loki now? +10% damage against mythical units. The question is, why? If the Hersir could shoot, they would have killed Nidhogg in 2 snouts. Without any buffs.
• What do the mythical units get from Loki now? Nothing

This is absurd! To make it clear, I just played a 49-minute 3v3 game on Loki. And the ability to summon mythical units only started working in the mythical age. Before that, I got one mythical unit every 10 minutes. That is, Loki now plays without Hersirs and mythical units. With only ulfsarks.

• Now he builds structures faster, not soldiers from longhouses. That is, he became weaker again. Because buildings do not win battles. Bad.
• I do not see that 10% filling summonig points from all units gave Loki some good buff. Because the result of this buff is visible only at age 4. And nerfs start to work at age 1.
• 50% discount on transformation workers worse than Freyr, who has a stronger economy.

Spy

• reuse cost 60 favor (this is more expensive than summoning a hill fort from Freyr). Poseidon can resummon his spy for 20, everywhere and he has more functions. This is terrible. One-time ability for some guy who be killed on 8 minute.

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Let’s sum it up.
Northerners got a nerf and a useless unit.
Heimdall gets buffs for age 4, and age 2 is lost.
Loki got a hard debuff. He plays like an atheist.
Very bad.

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[Urban_Hunter]

@Pine_Cultist

Loki got a hard debuff. He plays like an atheist.

To make it more clear what I mean.

[Moonshadow7475]

This patch was a disaster meant to fix another disaster and was comanded by clueless designers responding to feedback from clueless players.

[Cajocu01]

@Pine_Cultist

Because their only archer wasn’t designated as “ranged”

All counter archer units had a buff vs throwing axemen so for all intends and purpuses it waws an archer.

@Pine_Cultist

I don’t really understand why it’s needed

Norse got more unit variety, got a generalist infantry in the berserk and a specific anti calv unit. The unit works, its the main reason Odin kinda counters poseidon right now. The fact it doesnt have a Horus like upgrade doesnt mean its bad, neither does katapeltes and both still do their job very well.

@Pine_Cultist

The enemy could not understand what to prepare for, and the player could quickly adapt to the enemy’s strategy without building additional structure.

I mean theres only 2 units types you could make, infantry and calv, so what you say isnt true, you absolutely can blindly do army comps in legacy aom.

@Pine_Cultist

In addition, instead of two active barracks, the player is now forced to build two buildings, one of which will stand idle

Thats simply not the case, if you are going infantry units the “stable” still makes your hersir and godi and if you are going full calv you still want some sort of infantry production to kep building construction since you know, calv units cant build.

It also brought jarls down form hillforts to make them more accesible for norse, hence actualy giving you more variety.

@Pine_Cultist

If the player does not need huscarls or siege engines, then there is no point in building a hill fort (the structure simply turns into another tower)

Thats false, you will need siege in every game with how its going and now hillforts are similar to greek or atty palaces.

@Pine_Cultist

GODIS are not built before the age 3 anyway

Freya says hello

@Pine_Cultist

That is, now this upgrade is aimed at age 3 games and above. No benefits for age 2

50% less gold cost on TCs makes it aimed for age 3?

@Pine_Cultist

A very strange addition. Aging up is already very fast, there is no need to speed it up. Speeding up research also does not make a big difference.

The upgrade literally pays itself if you age up after completing it, thats how much economic boost it gives you. It makes you produce villagers faster and army faster. Its not an upgrade aimed at lategame when you are fully maxed on villagers. Its an upgrade that quite literally takes you faster to the late game by amping your villager production as if you had an eggy citadel.

@Pine_Cultist

Speed only works on giants and einherjars.

Literally all myth norse units benefit a lot from speed since the only one that prob doesnt change much form getting more speed on top of its normal upgrades is the valkyrie. Trolls, einherjars, boar and giants are all slowish units.

[Urban_Hunter]

@Cajocu01

All counter archer units had a buff vs throwing axemen so for all intends and purpuses it waws an archer.

Fake. Of all the cavalry, only the Cavalry Raiders had bonus damage against Throwing Axemen. The peltast only had 2x instead of 4x as against all other ranged units.

@Cajocu01

Norse got more unit variety, got a generalist infantry in the berserk and a specific anti calv unit. The unit works, its the main reason Odin kinda counters poseidon right now. The fact it doesnt have a Horus like upgrade doesnt mean its bad, neither does katapeltes and both still do their job very well.

From what you say, in the old ladder Poseidon countered all the Scandinavians. Apparently everyone played only him, well, to get rid of 33% of opponents on easy. I doubt.

@Cajocu01

I mean theres only 2 units types you could make, infantry and calv, so what you say isnt true, you absolutely can blindly do army comps in legacy aom.

If I built two stables at the start of the game, will you build archer barracks? Unit types infantry, archers and cavalry. Very strange statement. Probably you did not understand what I wrote.

@Cajocu01

It also brought jarls down form hillforts to make them more accesible for norse, hence actualy giving you more variety.

Building three types of barracks instead of two is certainly diversity. Diversity that wastes time and resources.

@Cajocu01

Thats false, you will need siege in every game with how its going and now hillforts are similar to greek or atty palaces.

Well, of course. We only have sieges in hill forts)))))

@Cajocu01

Freya says hello

This is also an invention. It wasn’t like this before. What flying units should be fought in the classical era? What, Caladrias can’t be killed by axemen? Another useless upgrade.

@Cajocu01

50% less gold cost on TCs makes it aimed for age 3?

175 gold is 3 raiders. And do you often go to the second TC in the classic?

@Cajocu01

The upgrade literally pays itself if you age up after completing it, thats how much economic boost it gives you. It makes you produce villagers faster and army faster. Its not an upgrade aimed at lategame when you are fully maxed on villagers. Its an upgrade that quite literally takes you faster to the late game by amping your villager production as if you had an eggy citadel.

It doesn’t work. Because speed needs to be provided with resources. And I’m not playing treaty.

@Cajocu01

boar

The boar is actually doing great in terms of speed.

[Urban_Hunter]

@Cajocu01

Norse got more unit variety, got a generalist infantry in the berserk and a specific anti calv unit. The unit works, its the main reason Odin kinda counters poseidon right now. The fact it doesnt have a Horus like upgrade doesnt mean its bad, neither does katapeltes and both still do their job very well.

And don’t tell me only about Horus.

The hirdman is useless. Wasting resources on him is stupid.

[Siniara]

@Pine_Cultist

175 gold is 3 raiders. And do you often go to the second TC in the classic?

With all due respect, but this line alone shows that you need to spend more time with the game before making such sweeping statements. Fast 2nd TC is literally the meta right now. A lot of your takes are quite wild. Same for Rigsthula, there are builds made just to get it as fast as possible precisely for how insanely good it is.

[Urban_Hunter]

It’s funny by the way, but it looks like your hirdman doesn’t work)))))))))

@Siniara

With all due respect, but this line alone shows that you need to spend more time with the game before making such sweeping statements.

Some time in vanilla, 300 hours in extended edition. 50 hours in Retold. How much more time I need?
If you don’t understand what a turtle is, then you’re the one who needs to spend time, not me. Cotton towers don’t help a turtle. I don’t need a boost. I need the map control I had to begin with.

[Urban_Hunter]

As practice shows, it’s not just me who doesn’t understand why the hell this “Great Hall” is needed.

Soon we’ll get to the throwing axemen and the hirdman)))

[Moonshadow7475]

Hirdman was needed because in TT Bragi was auto pick in age3 for the cav multiplier on ulfsark, because otherwise norse had no cost effective counter to cav.

[Cajocu01]

@Pine_Cultist

Fake. Of all the cavalry, only the Cavalry Raiders had bonus damage against Throwing Axemen. The peltast only had 2x instead of 4x as against all other ranged units.

i said counter archers, ergo peltast, tuma and slingers.

@Pine_Cultist

From what you say, in the old ladder Poseidon countered all the Scandinavians. Apparently everyone played only him, well, to get rid of 33% of opponents on easy. I doubt.

Check any recent pos vs odin in the previous tornament and listen to the commentary. if you wanna argue on lower elo, anything goes really, whatever is less apm heavy is gonna win most of the time. People dont defend raiding well and struggle to build a base defensively so its another world there. looking when played properly what i said happens.

@Pine_Cultist

If I built two stables at the start of the game, will you build archer barracks? Unit types infantry, archers and cavalry. Very strange statement. Probably you did not understand what I wrote.

In the old game if you made a longhouse i would as greek go hoplite toxote, that counters any unit combo you create, all i would have to change would be how much of either depending on what you are building.

@Pine_Cultist

This is also an invention. It wasn’t like this before. What flying units should be fought in the classical era? What, Caladrias can’t be killed by axemen? Another useless upgrade.

GODI also dint exist before so thers that. Its not only to deal with flying, have fun chasing centaurs wwith hersir.

@Pine_Cultist

175 gold is 3 raiders. And do you often go to the second TC in the classic?

Yes, yes you do.

@Pine_Cultist

It doesn’t work. Because speed needs to be provided with resources. And I’m not playing treaty.

The speed makes it so you are back to villager production faster, so you literally pay the upgrade itself from just aging up to heroic after getting it.

[Cajocu01]

Thank you, yea its clear he lacks game knowledge with the takes hes promoting.

[Cajocu01]

@Pine_Cultist

It’s funny by the way, but it looks like your hirdman doesn’t work)))))))))

By your flawed logic spearmen also dont work since its beating eggy. It also varies a lot with the stats you are taking data from.

[Urban_Hunter]

@Cajocu01

i said counter archers, ergo peltast, tuma and slingers.

Stop trying to get out of this. You said nothing has changed.

@Cajocu01

All counter archer units had a buff vs throwing axemen so for all intends and purpuses it waws an archer.

Cavalry is a counter unit to archers.

@Moonshadow7475

Hirdman was needed because in TT Bragi was auto pick in age3 for the cav multiplier on ulfsark, because otherwise norse had no cost effective counter to cav.

@Cajocu01

Check any recent pos vs odin in the previous tornament and listen to the commentary. if you wanna argue on lower elo, anything goes really, whatever is less apm heavy is gonna win most of the time. People dont defend raiding well and struggle to build a base defensively so its another world there. looking when played properly what i said happens.

Why would anyone build cavalry against Odin, who has no units that would counter cavalry with the “correct cost efficiency”.

@Cajocu01

In the old game if you made a longhouse i would as greek go hoplite toxote, that counters any unit combo you create, all i would have to change would be how much of either depending on what you are building.

However, I would have to build more buildings.

@Cajocu01

GODI also dint exist before so thers that. Its not only to deal with flying, have fun chasing centaurs wwith hersir.

Godi won’t catch up with a centaur who spams an ability.

@Cajocu01

The speed makes it so you are back to villager production faster, so you literally pay the upgrade itself from just aging up to heroic after getting it.

Not convinced at all. No point. To take advantage of this speed, you need to send all workers to eat to ensure food growth. Why should I build mass farms in classic?

@Cajocu01

By your flawed logic spearmen also dont work since its beating eggy. It also varies a lot with the stats you are taking data from.

Your flawed stats don’t take into account the number of divine upgrades for the spearman that I showed you, but ignored because it’s convenient for you. If you use mass spearmen, they can show themselves well on the battlefield, even if there is not a single horse there, and if you have a mass of hirdmen, they will lose fight vs any unit in the game.

[Cajocu01]

@Pine_Cultist

Stop trying to get out of this. You said nothing has changed

I said counter archers still had a bonus va then in the old game. But yea, calv units didnt.

@Pine_Cultist

Cavalry is a counter unit to archers.

Am talking about the tag, “counter archers” is a unite type. But o see how i was confusing, my bad. Yea TA now got worse va calv units. And due to retold having way higher damage multipliers they are also worst yo counter archers.

@Pine_Cultist

Why would anyone build cavalry against Odin, who has no units that would counter cavalry with the “correct cost efficiency

Because its their strengh as well. You would do much worse Building other unit types.

@Pine_Cultist

Godi won’t catch up with a centaur who spams an ability

But they will Hit it when it stops yo use its ability and dont have to go through a frontline of calv units to do so.

@Pine_Cultist

Not convinced at all. No point. To take advantage of this speed, you need to send all workers to eat to ensure food growth. Why should I build mass farms in classic?

Dude you are un real. You dont need farms to keep villager production. Hunt is faster. Your argument sounds like “why would i Want faster army production, it would just drain my resources” when its one of the Best things you can have, to pump units faster than your opponent, and villagers no less which tend to be unafected by most upgrades because of how strong it is.

Handicap yourself all you Want, the tech is good,

@Pine_Cultist

Your flawed stats don’t take into account the number of divine upgrades for the spearman that I showed you, but ignored because it’s convenient for you. If you use mass spearmen, they can show themselves well on the battlefield, even if there is not a single horse there, and if you have a mass of hirdmen, they will lose fight vs any unit in the game

Spearmen are better than hirdman 100% with you there, you ignore the flaws in your argument. Pos has higher winrate in that pic you shared vs eggy more than vs norse. So it would contradict your claim, not mine.

[Urban_Hunter]

@Cajocu01

Am talking about the tag, “counter archers” is a unite type. But o see how i was confusing, my bad. Yea TA now got worse va calv units. And due to retold having way higher damage multipliers they are also worst yo counter archers.

And the Scandinavians got nothing in return. Only +1.5 to damage and +2 to attack range. This is a topic I understand well because I played AoE 3. There were units with two tags there too. The problem is that there are no directive upgrades. All upgrades are tag-based. That is, units with two tags did not get +30% HP and damage, but +60%. That was the point of having two tags. Although even that didn’t help. Nobody used units with two tags.

@Cajocu01

Because its their strengh as well. You would do much worse Building other unit types.

That is, to make the hippei better than the hypaspists against Odin, right?

@Cajocu01

Hunt is faster

This is a topic for another discussion, but there is no food on the maps. There is 1 pile in the reachable zone at the base and two nearby. That’s it. Where will I collect food with 30 peasants if I only have 20 deer and 10 bushes?

@Cajocu01

Handicap yourself all you Want, the tech is good,

I take it only for the heroic age

@Cajocu01

Spearmen are better than hirdman 100% with you there, you ignore the flaws in your argument. Pos has higher winrate in that pic you shared vs eggy more than vs norse. So it would contradict your claim, not mine.

The only question is how many hirdmans were built during the match. 10? He’s not just worse. He’s not capable of anything at all. Do you know why prodormus isn’t useless, but hirdman is? Because Poseidon need someone to use instead of hoplites. And the northerners don’t have normal upgrades for hirdman. Half of the hirdman’s upgrades are found only in Freyr. That’s how it is.

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Let’s sum it up.
As for Throwing Axemen: You gave yourself away as either biased or as someone who has never played Norse and knows nothing about them when you said that “TA” didn’t get a significant nerf. This is a key point, by the way, because the nerf to Throwing Axemen is related to the appearance of Hirdmen.

When we found out that you don’t know anything about throwing axemen, you blurted out another stupid thing by saying that they were countered by anti-archers. Well, anti-archers dealt 4x damage to archers and only 2x damage to throwing axemen. And now they deal them all 4x damage.
The Throwing Axeman was sunk to the bottom. The unit was simply taken away from civilization. It no longer exists.

Regarding the hirdmen:
Will you be able to fight with a hirdman+throwing axeman combination like the Greeks or Egyptians do? You are also absolutely sure that the best results against Poseidon for the northerners are solely due to the hirdman, although I think he is not present in the battles at all.

We couldn’t come to an agreement about Heimdall. If Heimdall is needed for the turtle, how will he implement it? With walls?

You also said that the NEED to build two types of buildings instead of one at the beginning of the game does not affect anything or only affects it in a positive way.

Also, you don’t know that there are mythical siege units in the game.

And you also said that speed is needed by all northern mythical units.

The argument you used for Godi’s production not being at Hill Fort was that Freya was using their earlier production.

You also tried to think of a use for Godi before age 3. Very weak argument. Never seen them at that age. And that it is the only counter unit for centaurs in the early game.

Also, you didn’t say anything else. As I understand, you agree with all my other statements about Loki and Bragi?)))

[Cajocu01]

Seems like its gonna be just like the other guy that types in all caps, you are gonna ignore all you flaws an hop into some niche thing. Its not an conversation with you.

@Pine_Cultist

And the Scandinavians got nothing in return. Only +1.5 to damage and +2 to attack range. This is a topic I understand well because I played AoE 3. There were units with two tags there too. The problem is that there are no directive upgrades. All upgrades are tag-based. That is, units with two tags did not get +30% HP and damage, but +60%. That was the point of having two tags. Although even that didn’t help. Nobody used units with two tags.

All double tagged units are hindered by the double tag no unit benefits from it and its by design (im not here to argue if thats good or bad design). My point is not that they were worse in the older version. Its that the double tag fits them as they are the only range hack armor unit an unlike the old version that had hidden bonuses of anti archer units (which you now learned which they are) retold doesnt have that. The game was simply designed differently with high counter multiplier which hinder TA a lot more but thats the game design the devs took.

@Pine_Cultist

That is, to make the hippei better than the hypaspists against Odin, right?

Yea, you make more than 1 unit type, but its clear you are not gonna look it up.

@Pine_Cultist

This is a topic for another discussion, but there is no food on the maps. There is 1 pile in the reachable zone at the base and two nearby. That’s it. Where will I collect food with 30 peasants if I only have 20 deer and 10 bushes?

you are shifting the post every time you are wrong about he upgrade. Its good, its very worth it on age 2, its not a late game tech, you dont need farms to sustain. its no ta matter of opinion if its better or worse. Its 100% fact that hunt gather is better than farms.

@Pine_Cultist

Where will I collect food with 30 peasants if I only have 20 deer and 10 bushes?

Yea dude, you will ahve so many villagers you will not have resources, sure buddy keep at it. You make it sound like you just need all your villagers on food to just barely keep making villagers, which is hilarious. More villgers = More resources gatheres = more buildings/military units.

@Pine_Cultist

I take it only for the heroic age

You just said it was a 4th age tech, funny how you contradict yourself.

@Pine_Cultist

The only question is how many hirdmans were built during the match. 10? He’s not just worse. He’s not capable of anything at all. Do you know why prodormus isn’t useless, but hirdman is? Because Poseidon need someone to use instead of hoplites. And the northerners don’t have normal upgrades for hirdman. Half of the hirdman’s upgrades are found only in Freyr. That’s how it is.

Both bragi and forseti upgrades work on hirdman so yea. you are wrong again

@Pine_Cultist

Never seen them at that age

It doesnt amaze me at your level people dont play them.

@Pine_Cultist

you agree with all my other statements about Loki

Yea loki was nerfed to the ground, its bonus its either very oppresive (like it was) or barely anything (like it is now) Spy is insanely costly on a recast for what its worth.

[Urban_Hunter]

@Cajocu01

Seems like its gonna be just like the other guy that types in all caps, you are gonna ignore all you flaws an hop into some niche thing. Its not an conversation with you.

List the flaws you are talking about, please.

@Cajocu01

All double tagged units are hindered by the double tag no unit benefits from it and its by design (im not here to argue if thats good or bad design). My point is not that they were worse in the older version. Its that the double tag fits them as they are the only range hack armor unit an unlike the old version that had hidden bonuses of anti archer units (which you now learned which they are) retold doesnt have that. The game was simply designed differently with high counter multiplier which hinder TA a lot more but thats the game design the devs took.

The developers destroyed a unit (which you know nothing about). And gave nothing in return. I know what they “took”, that’s why I suggest not to return the hidden counters, but to simply leave one single tag.

@Cajocu01

Yea, you make more than 1 unit type, but its clear you are not gonna look it up.

If there will be a mixed army there anyway, why do you need a unit against mass cavalry?

@Cajocu01

you are shifting the post every time you are wrong about he upgrade. Its good, its very worth it on age 2, its not a late game tech, you dont need farms to sustain. its no ta matter of opinion if its better or worse. Its 100% fact that hunt gather is better than farms.

@Cajocu01

Yea dude, you will ahve so many villagers you will not have resources, sure buddy keep at it. You make it sound like you just need all your villagers on food to just barely keep making villagers, which is hilarious. More villgers = More resources gatheres = more buildings/military units.

You’re getting away from an uncomfortable topic again. There’s no food on the map. 20 deer and 10 bushes, then only farms. I never disputed the fact that hunting is stronger than farms, I said that there isn’t enough hunting on the map to support accelerated production, not to mention keeping at least 20 peasants busy hunting. This is impossible. (Have you even played this game?)

@Cajocu01

You just said it was a 4th age tech, funny how you contradict yourself.

If you’re trying to nitpick words, you’re doing a very bad job. Because I said technology is only needed at age 4. And then I said I take it at age 3. I didn’t say it was needed at that age. (I like the stupid direction you’re trying to take this discussion)

@Cajocu01

Both bragi and forseti upgrades work on hirdman so yea. you are wrong again

And how? Does it help to fight as a hirdman instead of ulfsarks?

@Cajocu01

It doesnt amaze me at your level people dont play them.

The unit is not useful enough to make a whole upgrade and get access to it.

@Cajocu01

Yea loki was nerfed to the ground, its bonus its either very oppresive (like it was) or barely anything (like it is now) Spy is insanely costly on a recast for what its worth.

Good They did the same thing with the throwing axeman.

[Cajocu01]

@Pine_Cultist

I said that there isn’t enough hunting on the map to support accelerated production

This doesnt even make sense. In any game you run out of hunt and transition to other food sources. You are simply doing this faster bacsue you are gathering resources faster. Its not a bad thing to happen you are literally getting ahead in the game.

@Pine_Cultist

This is impossible. (Have you even played this game?)

It is very possible to have that many vills on hunt (obviously map dependant)

Yes, i do play the game0, and better than you as it seems from looking at aomstats but thats not the point here.

@Pine_Cultist

If you’re trying to nitpick words, you’re doing a very bad job. Because I said technology is only needed at age 4. And then I said I take it at age 3. I didn’t say it was needed at that age. (I like the stupid direction you’re trying to take this discussion)

Its the least usefull at late game, since it doesnt ive you the villager advantage that it would otherwise plus you getting to ramp your army population faster.

@Pine_Cultist

And how? Does it help to fight as a hirdman instead of ulfsarks?

yes, yes they do.

@Pine_Cultist

If there will be a mixed army there anyway, why do you need a unit against mass cavalry?

Yep, you are not gonna look the match up at high level.

@Pine_Cultist

The unit is not useful enough to make a whole upgrade and get access to it.

You dont pick bragi just cause of that upgrade, im just refutting what you said

[Riba]

Eh, Hirdmen are great situationally, for example forcing Egyptians, Poseidon or Chinese to mix in Barracks units which aren’t as strong as cavalry units.

Berserks are decent for how strong norse economy is. Yea, the cav units feel like better “frontline” but berserks have higher dps for pop and can build at strategic locations.

Rigsthula is much stronger than you make it sound like it is. It makes your 2 TC into 2.4 TCs. That is several minutes faster economy.

You are playing norse wrong. Norse is intentionally pop ineffetive (Hersir is more of a 2.5 pop unit and Berserk 1.5 pop unit). What you are supposed to do is take middle control with your economic advantage (Ox carts, 2 type of vils, military units building) and from there assault enemy at locations.