Some small civ change ideas and general balance ideas

I’ll start with what I find needs a possible nerf.

Saracens:

  • Revert the civ bonus of archer bonus dealing bonus damage vs buildings to cav archer line only.

Reason: Saracens already have potential to be play super aggressive with their market play. While not top tier in most players eyes. Those who know how to abuse it can basically steamroll games easily. Crossbows basically taking out tcs with mangonel or monk to cover elite skirm or knight play makes it hard to defend against. The bonus is too good for crossbowmen. At least mayans need to get obsidian arrows. Saracens do not. Crossbow play is strong as it is. I think this change is necessary and will still keep saracens in a good spot.

EDIT AND UPDATE: JUST REMOVE THE CIV BONUS DAMAGE VS BUILDINGS FOR FOOT ARCHERS AND KEEP TEAM BONUS TO +2

Lithuanians:

EDIT AND UPDATE: LEAVE LITHUANIANS AS IT IS BUT MAYBE ONLY ALLOW +2 RELIC ATTACK IN CASTLE AGE AND +2 IN IMPERIAL

Reason: in most team games. The bonus is simply too easy for Lithuanians to get all 4 relics. Especially when team games spawn more than 4. +4 attack for free is too strong. And while people say Lithuanians castle age is meh. They have solid potential in their trash line for 1v1s and serviceable pikemen/halb in team games AND a solid monk line. +4 attack I still feel is too much. I think +3 still makes them very top tier. They will also have a valid tc defence vs mangonels which applies in castle age so there isn’t any douching shenanigans.

Bulgarians:

  • Apply Stirrups to Cavalry Archers as well

Reason: if they lost paladin to have this applied to all cavalry. Bulgarians cav archers should have the effect too. They miss the final archer armour anyway. They still lack crossbowmen which is huge.

EDIT AND UPDATE: JUST APPLY STIRRUPS TO CAV ARCHERS

Tatars:

  • New TCs shouldn’t give 2 extra sheep.

EDIT AND UPDATE: JUST ONE SHEEP IS FINE!

Reason: self explanatory

Vikings:

  • Revert chieftains tech cost to its former price

Reason: people think vikings are too OP on land. I dont actually think so and think they’re fine given their late game options are very lacklustre. Chieftains was not the issue why vikings was or is broken when they’re the more balanced AoK civs out there that can keep up with modern OP civs.

Byzantines:

  • Free Town Patrol

Reason: Self Explanatory

Spanish:

  • Conquistadors cavalry archer and archer class removed. READ BELOW ITS NOT A BUFF

  • New armour class applied: Conquistador + Hand Cannon Class (similar to saracen mameluke)

This armour class takes bonus damage from the following units:

  • Skirmisher +2 bonus damage

  • Huskarls archer bonus applied to Conquistadors class

  • Elite Conquistador upgrade is now 950f 500g

  • Elite Conquistadors get +10 HP and -3 training time. Elite Conquistadors also get +10% accuracy

Reason: Spanish are not that good anymore. Skirms will counter these beasts of a unit but now crossbows should too. With ease. Camel Archers should still be a counter despite this change as well. So don’t worry. Elite is never worth it and now it should be.

EDIT AND UPDATE: CONQS KEEP 2/2 ARMOUR REGARDLESS

General changes:

  • Nomad start maps. Villagers cannot build pallisade walls or attack other villagers until a TC is built.

  • Villagers now spawn in team locations closer to each other with 1 villager close to dockable water.

Reason: it simply shouldn’t be allowed. Allows for fairer starts. There is still an RNG element which won’t change dynamics.

New class to Hand Cannoneers:

  • Remove the archer class. Apply the Hand Cannon class.

What does this class consist of:

  • Any bonus damage that applied to archer units is now gone.

  • They now take bonus damage from Skirms only +3.

Reason: just a reason to make hand cannoneers a little better at what they specialise in.

EDIT: BELOW I SCRAPPED THESE IDEAS:

SARACENS:

* Maybe only allow team bonus do +1 damage feudal, +1 castle and +1 in imperial age for foot archers.

LITHUANIANS:

* Hill Forts removed and replaced with this new effect: Fletching, Bodkin and Bracer increase TC range (starting in Castle Age)

* New UT: Nobility 600f 400g. Each collected Relic gives knight and leitis +1 attack (capped at 3)

BULGARIANS:

* Give Bulgarians Sanctity and/or Block Printing

5 Likes

Some nice ideas in here. I like your changes to nomad, and the changes to Lithuanians. Although I think that the relic tech should be much cheaper.
For Tartars I would rather suggest to replace the two sheep with either one sheep per TC, or one cow. The sheep at extra TCs dont have that much impact anyways, they are nice to have, but this wont change too much imo.
I like the hand cannon idea, especially against goths.

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YES at last someone cares about the old Sarracen CA bonus and doesn’t want it banished with the rest

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so first they have to pay for it, and then its not even guaranteed? that’s a bullcrap bonus. every other civ that pays for extra attack just gets extra attack. Malians, Aztecs both. so Lithuanians get to pay for a bonus, and then that bonus can still be denied? no thanks, that isn’t fair at all.

5 Likes

Oh and at last someone doesn’t propose 9848341 Frank nerfs because “55% winrate is OP”

All of this sounds pretty good but I have a few questions.

You said you don’t feel Spanish are that good anymore, but yet you still nerf Conqs in castle age in exchange of a minor buff in Imperial age despite the fact Spanish are already a good late-game civ. I don’t get it.

I also don’t understand where is the need for Bulgarian to have better monks. If anything, with their strong siege play now they need monks less, and buffing their HCA even patches up their archery range.

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the lithuanian change does not. at least before it made sense that you didn’t pay for it because you had to actually work to get the bonus unlike other civs.
now you have to pay, and on top of that its capped at +3? thats a double nerf on top of the other two nerfs that have happened in the past (capped at 4, not apply to Scout line).

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I want the Indians to have battle elephants and they even have a melee elephant unit in AoE 3.


And we can see that they have it in this FE screenshot.

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giving them battle elephants won’t do much, as they won’t see use. whats the point of giving them a unit that has no bonuses and doesn’t get used even when they have bonuses (Vietnamese and Burmese as an example). you’d have to give them BE and then some sort of bonus for them.

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Well they also have Persian eles so meh

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Good ideas other than Lithuanians. Hand Cannoneers would be the same trash. That unit needs serious buffs. Devs should remove Obsidian Arrow from the game too, because it’s broken.

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Malians get farimba which costs only 50 gold more then this, and gives +3 total attack to every melee cavalry they have, without any other work needed. oh, and they save the cost of blast furnace too, so that means Farimba is actually cheaper then what Lithuanians would spend. and gives a better effect.
Lithuanians - spend 50 less gold, collect relics, which can be denied, and taken away, get +1 attack to 2 units total per relic.

totally fair.

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I disagree with this as I think the Mongols should have the best Cav Archers in the game and the RoF is what makes them better than generic ones.

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Mongols already don’t have the best cav arches in the game. that belongs to either magyars, turks or tatars.

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Ok, but the Mongols should be the only civ to have fast-firing cav archers.

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and khmer get two difference bonuses for their elephants, speed and attack. how often do you see vietnamese or burmese elephants?

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I just like battle elephants because they are tanky and they look cute.

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Turks and Magyars are the best cav Archers in the game already. Mongols almost never use their non-UU Cav archers, in all honesty.

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Can we please shut up about Indians and their elephants?
Ffs, stop making balance suggestions based on history instead of balancing.

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Perhaps the tech can be cheaper and made so if you collected the relics once then lose them. The attack remains.

I wouldnt be opposed to make it so knight line and leitis line get +3 attack but it then sounds like a farimba clone.

My final idea was this:

New UT gives knights and leitis +3 attack

Collected Relics give 0.2 hp/s to cavalry, capped at 5 relics. This new relics bonus would not need a UT. It simply replaces the attack one with hp regeneration.

I’ve played Lithuanians on every TG 2900 rated. And I’ve never had an issue collecting 4 relics so easily. It’s really not that hard with some co ordination. This bonus does need a nerf. I’m just not sure how.

2 Likes

so we nerf 1v1 balance because team games. great. because that worked so well for Indians.

https://aoestats.io/stats/RM_TEAM fyi in team games Lithuanians are sitting at 50.45%. hardly overbearing.
https://aoestats.io/stats/RM_TEAM/1650+ even at the highest level its not oppressive.

6 Likes