Some suggestions to address less played Civs

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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To be clear: The underlying impression of the current state of the game, however, is that we already have a huge balance between civilisations (win rates between 45% and 55%) and only minor changes are needed. Here are suggestions that address the least picked Civs or the ones with lowest winrates. Additionally some of the weird Unique Technologies are mentioned.

Spanish:

  • Access to Genitour.
  • Technologies and Upgrades in the Stable, Archery Range, Barracks and Blacksmith cost no gold in the Feudal and Castle Age.
  • Missionaries become Monks when a relic is taken and Spanish Monks can become Missionaries at a Stable (HP is then fixed to Monks’ HP to avoid a Stable abuse with Bloodlines) and vice versa.
  • (Start with +50 Stone).

Genitour becomes a regional unit (see Berbers) and fits in a Spanish mounted army composition. The amount of Gold saved with this change is 625 in Feudal+Castle (for Blacksmith, E-Skirms, Pikes, Light Cav, Men-at-arms, Longsword, Supplies, Bloodlines, Arson), while “loosing” 1025 saved Gold in the Blacksmith in Imperial Age. Starting with +50 Stone could support a Tower Rush or makes 1 Tower + Town Center available. Maybe too much of a buff in total.

Portuguese

  • Access to Genitour.
  • Technologies researched 50% faster.
  • Feitoria is available in Castle Age, costs 10 population space, is a gather point for all resources (each drop-off of resources generates 2 Gold and 2 Stone), works as a Market (can produce Trade Carts, research Market Technologies) and shoots arrows (Attack: 7, Range: 7, cannot be garrisoned).

Genitour for Portuguese might not be very strong, but nice to have. The technology research speed could be even faster to have a significant impact, finding the right number is difficult. Feitoria concept as a fortified market without passive ressource income makes it easier to play against it as villagers won’t be dropping off when under attack.

Italians:

  • New additional effect for Silk Road: Markets produce passively Gold (like a relic, up to 3) and the effect counts for allies as well.
  • Elite Genoese Crossbowman Upgrade costs 700 Food and 500 Gold.

Silk Road has no effect in 1v1. Elite Upgrade is very expensive for what it does. However, the only motivation to change the UT is the overall idea to increase the usage of UT.

Vietnamese:

  • Archers and Skirmishers have 25% more HP (20 before).
  • Imperial Skirmisher 40 HP (35 before).
  • New effect for Paper Money: Gives you and your allies access to one otherwise inaccessible technology in the tech tree (e.g., Blast Furnace, Parthian Tactics, Siege Onager, Siege Ram, Hussar, Paladin, Shipwright, Redemption). Can be researched normally for half the regular costs afterwards.

Same argument as for Italians: The idea is to have a UT that is useful in 1v1 as well. The Archer HP buff is small, but as said before, the balance is already good.

In general:

  • Steppe Lancers gain an attack bonus of +4/+6 against villagers and trade units and +3/+5 against Siege Units.
  • Steppe Lancer to Huns, Magyars and Turks (and maybe one of the Civs of the upcoming DLC).

Could define the role of Steppe Lancers a bit more. Right now they are outclassed by Knights and CavArchers and the SL Civs are good at them.

Cumans:

  • New Unique Technology in Imperial Age: Kustanai (600 Gold / 400 Food): +4 Bonus damage vs. Archer units for Stable units.
  • Build Time for additional Feudal Age Town Center reduced to 4:00 minutes (was 4:30)

Less Build Time makes their only eco bonus a little more useful for medium players. Kustainai would be a powerful late game option (maybe more expensive)

Mongols

  • New additional effect for Nomads Unique Technology: Lost Houses, Town Centers and Castles do not decrease population.

Just made no sense otherwise.

Koreans

  • All foot units +3 LOS (instead of only villagers; including monks, archers, etc.).
  • Stone Mining Technology free.

Byzantines

  • Free Town Patrol

These two are very uncreative, tbh. However, personally I like when an identity is preserved or strenghtened.

In general:

  • Battle Elephant to Berbers, Indians and Persians.
  • Scorpions: Bonus damage vs. War Elephants applies also to all Elephant Units (6/8). (Cavalry -15% Speed when hit by bolts (for 10 seconds).)

Berbers :

  • Access to Genitour.
  • Team Bonus changed to “Castles work 20% faster”.
  • New Unique Tech effect in Castle Age for Kasbah: Military Buildings (except for Castles), 2x HP.
  • No access to Masonry.

Persians :

  • New Effect for Mahouts: Speed increase reduced to 25%, but counts also for Battle Elephants.
  • War Elephant speed 0.7 (was 0.6)

Burgundians:

  • New Effect for Flemish Revolution: Upgrades all existing non-farming Villagers to Flemish Militia

Sicilians:

  • Lose access to Conscription.
  • New Effect for First Crusade: Stable, Archery Range and Barracks units production time halved.
  • New Effect for Scutage (new cost: 800 Food and 500 Gold): Sicilian Units deal +1 bonus damage vs. gold units (and opponents’ units cost 10% more gold)

Saracens:

  • New Effect for Madrasah (new cost: 600 Food, 300 Gold): Upgrades Monasteries to Madrasahs, which have a healing radius of 4 (1 HP every 2 seconds, can be stacked up to 3 Madrasahs)
  • Mamelukes cost 55 Food, 75 Gold (was 85 Gold). Bonus damage vs. Cavalry (12) removed, instead +5 bonus damage vs. Infantry.

Incas:

  • Start with 2 free Lamas.
  • Archers move 10% faster.
  • New Teambonus: Farms built instantly.

2) and 3) can be switched, as people complain the current team bonus interferes with Build Orders in Team Games

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that’s too much of a buff to spanish. especially think about this - you’ve literally just given them goldless hussar and paladin. people complain about burgundians half cost paladins as is, and you’ve just given a civ that gets fully upgraded paladins them without having to spend a single gold in the blacksmith or stable for upgrades. attack and armor, bloodlines, cavalier, and paladin. all without gold.

not sure i like this - drop a bunch of farms around it and you’ve got a basically unlimited amount of food, stone and gold.

i really don’t like the idea of unlimited resources in aoe2.

better that its cheaper but frankly i still think that’s too expensive.

seems a bit random and could be a huge pain - imagine giving bulgarians paladins as an example.

huns absolutely don’t need more raiding options, or buffs period.

this is already true - war elephant is an armor class that exists on every existing elephant unit in the game.
not sure how to apply debuffs and definitely don’t like the idea of debuffs in the game like this. reeks of non aoe2 mechanics.

again something like this is impossible to code and definitely not something that belongs in aoe2.

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Paper money replacement sounds very abusable, Inca faster archers are dangerously close to being op, cumans plus 4 Vs archers sounds op, and the changes to Sicilians and Flemish revolution are very bad. All in all I only agree on trying to give feitoria a better use.

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The goldess Techs only apply in Feudal and Castle Age in this scenario.

Didnt know that, thank you.

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What exactly do you think about the Sicilians and Flemish Revolution change suggestions (especially compared to its current version) ?

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sorry didn’t notice that. but still. you’re talking a lot of saved gold.

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Double the production speed is just overpowered, and the plus 1 to gold units is impossible as there is no gold unit Armor class and it also makes no sense.

Flemish revolution just for non farmers is too easily controllable. You quickly send all vills away from farms or to farms and then you choose which vills will transform. You could then implement that select feature directly. I’d prefer researching the tech allows to change the vills for a small amount into Flemish militia and production of them at TC. Also stats should be lower than champion and against cav comparable to pikes.

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Viets archers are already strong, there is no need for such change, and onestly they don’t need any buff.

I think that those civs lack those techs for a reason, so hard no.

Just change paper money to cost 800f-w and gives 800g.

SR is a good tech, not everything needs to be viable in 1v1. Just give them SE instead affected by their uni bonus.

I think that it’s too cheap now :joy:

I mean yes, it does little for the GC the elite upgrade, but it’s still an imp tech, so it can’t be too cheap.

Buffing it to 33% is enough, so that you can squeeze a vill right after WB.

Yeah I don’t see that coming, feritoria is already messy as it is…

This one too…

If you refer to just the “non-line” upgrades then yeah, it can be good

They just nerfed the inca Trush and you want to buff the spanish one?

People already complain of lithuanians +4, which depends from relics, and you want to give to a paladins that already is +5% faster a +4 bonus against archers that is always assured.

Just make them unlock the 200 pop huns style.

Their archers are already quite strong, and their scouting would be insane.

BE to berbers doesn’t make any sense, both historically and from a game prospective.
BE to Indians instead would be just OP.
Persians have WE, so they don’t need the BE.

It would be enough to switch to other resources the vills a second before the tech, so it wouldn’t do a lot…

Yeah let’s make every sicilian unit OP…

50% less bonus damage, 50% TT, +1 vs almost all units in the game…

Why not give them range to their cavaliers since we are there…

No, both are strong, especially the 10% faster foot archers…

The rest are fine.

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And Burmese? The least played civ both in 1vs1 and TG.

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@Eremuz You’re the only one that likes burmese

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:broken_heart:
My Life Is a joke, like arambai…

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Koreans

  • All foot units +3 LOS (instead of only villagers; including monks, archers, etc.).
  • Stone Mining Technology free.

I think the first one is more for the Asian steppe civs rather than the Koreans, if we consider historical information at the same time. This bonus reminds me of the steppe people’s good sights.

Instead, I suggest generally faster unit creation. Historically, Koreans had to prepare everything urgently due to their circumstances, and this is still there culturally. Due to the fast tasks, the quality may be not that good compared to other slow and sophisticated tasks, but the speed compensates the flaws–speed is the matter, quality is secondary, if I sum it up. So, I suggest generally faster unit trains but instead, weaker tech trees when they fight another civ with the same kind and number of units. I think the current disadvantage of no bloodlines and no blast furnace is good for this weakness.

The second one is good, btw. The Korean peninsula has no resources but wood and stone in reality. This is why they historically and still have been grinding people… So, stone mining advantage is quite acceptable and makes sense.

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The Sicilians and Burgundians you might not have counted as they are the only paid civs in AoE 2 DE - not everyone bought these DLCs.

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The Korean tech tree is already full of holes (especially their cav) so I don’t think worsening that is going to get the civ anywhere. And Koreans already have a natural bonus for stone mining idk why they would need the stone mining techs for free on top of that…

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some very interesting ideas. A lot of them sound unbalanced though.

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I must say I’d love to see Feitoria available in Castle age. Not sure about its balance though.
Also convinced the Steppe Lancers deserve a bigger buff. This with being available to also Huns and Magyars (not Turks) would give them more usage.

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No love for Goths!?

(20char)

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Goths current playrate is 3.15%.
that’s hardly a “less played civ” as it puts it 11th overall.

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The Huns and Goths are civs that only existed in the dark ages. I think that they are more thematically relevant to the fall of Rome than to the entire medieval period (thousand years).

The Goths civ could easily change their name to the Saxons - at least it would fit more with the rest of the civs.

The Huns civ in AoE 2 use the Mongolian language - they could represent some Monglish people, for example Khitan.

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we already have a way to play less-played civs
it’s called random-civ-only queue
that is how us experienced players played aoe2 for 20+ years

this pick civ + pick position culture makes a mockery of the game. the maps are not balanced for it. the game is not balanced for it.

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