900f age up ideas that stays in line with Spain theme:
Upon age up provide 0 resources but grant a church wagon and double church xp. This would be an extremely slow start having 0 age up resources but would stick to the xp perk of Spain.
Upon age up reduce the shipment time of all shipments by 30% (from 40s to 28s and from 60s to 42s). Again a slow start having zero age up resources.
Upon age up shipments 100 coin crate and provide a 1.2 coin/s trickle. This would even out to the same timing for a tower ff BUT risky since no tower and would ONLY surpass tower age up in terms of villager_seconds at 6mins after the age up…hmmm, for that kind of risk I’d like a 1.8 coin/s trickle instead!! Surpasses tower age up timing, still super risky but equates to tower V_S in 4mins…still feels weak?
Upon age up start with 0 crate and grant a 30% coin gather rate buff. This would be optimal in teams, this would promote longer age 2 play as a naked ff would be risky and would not optimize the gather rate unless you could ship merc as first or second card… no tower and slower age up…ff seems too risky for 90s age up plus 60s merc shipment.
Upon age up ship a church and grant a 10% hand attack on all land units. This would not be a ff option but may work in teams as a hussar opening. In 1 v 1 there are a few match-ups that would have this age up be interesting.
Upon age up 2 wagons a church and a military wagon for stable/barracks…a bit boring since everyone else already has this similar option but this would make it consistent with other civs 900f age ups. Still less resources as most 900f civs that get an age up wagons get 450 to 500w wood worth plus V_S to build each. However Spain would regain the lost wood thru xp in the church. This would allow for spie opening vs japan and monk creation for later unction or to heal expensive units. Actually this might be the best option yet in terms of fairness
Correction: all 900f age up even with faster coin gathering would be slower than a naked tower ff.
I don’t understand why you want to completely change the Logistician Politician to something that doesn’t synergize at all with Spain’s civ mechanic (faster shipments). The Logistician synergizes with that perfectly. The only problem is that it’s slow for age 2 rushes. Changing the cost to 800 food would be enough to make it viable and make Spain’s age 2 strategies much stronger. Watch Aussie Drongo’s Youtube video on the Spanish Logistician Politician to get a better idea on how to use it.
Unfortunately, the new buff to the Logistician does not address the fact that it’s still slow for age 2 play but it’s a start.
Rods are good in age 2 against specific civilizations. I wouldn’t recommend them in age 2 against any civ that has a strong Musketeer type unit e.g. Japan, India, Sweden, Ottomans. Rods are good against Aztecs, Lakota (difficult against a player that has good micro but still doable), Germany, France, Russia, and China but only in age 2. In age 3 you need to mix your rods with Lancers. In order for Rods to counter normal European musketeers effectively in age 2, you need to send their +20% hp card before engaging your enemy and you need to have good micro. You need to completely surround your enemy with your Rod mass and use their speed to harass your enemy.
Unfortunately, Crossbows are not an effective heavy infantry counter. They only have a x1.25 multiplier against them and 16 damage which adds up to 20 damage against heavy infantry (lower than a musketeer). You would have to have a much bigger mass and have impeccable micro with your crossbows in order to win a fight against musketeers. This could change if they had a x1.5 multiplier against heavy infantry but that’s wishful thinking.
It supposedly synergises with Spanish Gold, in which case now you just always get those 400 Gold shipments straight to your resource pool.
I do not like it very much. It can be easily fixed, however, by making it a 800 Food option (all Logisticians should cost 800) and giving it a Military Wagon.
I’m not sure about all of them. For the Dutch at least, 800 food would make it too strong as you will get the age-up Veteran Halberdier too quickly and would make it too strong against rushing civilizations like Russians and Ottomans.
I tried the Logistician some more and it’s a lot better in my opinion. The fact that you get all the resources straight into your resource pool saves a lot of villager seconds in gathering them. It’s really cool that you can immediately get 700 resources once you age up. I’m definitely warming up to the new change.
Spain will get a nerf… the 900f age up is too strong
the current 900f age up is extremely strong with a minimum of 2 TPs and a 1 church while rushing. By simply massing units and building buildings you will keep the xp generation consistent enough to continue to spam 700 resource shipments that arrive in 20 sec after que; which of course allows to invest in more into the production and farm even MORE exp…
I lost a few games but I was able to OUT RESOURCE SWEDEN for like 14min game; and in a 30min game I outboom Inca?! Hopefully Spain will be tweaked last after America and other OP civs…
You wanted it buffed and now you want it nerfed. Make up your mind. It’s not at all OP. I would say it’s strong but definitely not OP. The only difference now is that you don’t need to collect the resource crates and it saves you villager seconds. As stepheneaux12 said, it’s still slow and weak on non-TP maps. I also hope they make the church available in age 1 for Spain and Germany and maybe give them the option to make a second church.
I don’t see where I said I WANT a nerf?? I expect a nerf once the top tier players optimize the build order. I suspect the majority of you posting on this thread are respectfully ranked in the high 400+ ranking.
When you compete in the 200s and below, execution, planning, reaction and timings get more crisp!
If you can’t OUTBOOM brit with this new 900f age up while applying pressure on a multiple TP map… its because you not doing it right.
If it wasn’t nerfed before, I don’t see it being nerfed now. There’s not much difference between how it works now and how it worked before. As I said before, rushes rely on speed, and this new buff doesn’t address that. This buff only makes it easier to macro since you don’t have to worry about the resources crates.
If Brit makes walls and prepares effectively, your push will come too late to make a difference. Still better to FF or FI against Brits.
The reason you don’t see the difference is you don’t understand. Not having to gather the crates equals almost 90 villager seconds!!! You send 6 shipments that do NOT have to be picked up resulting in near 525 villager seconds saved!! And keep in mind those 6 shipments would arrive at half the time.
The way you guys are probably playing this 900f build is likely a standard 15 to 16 vil age up with tp in transition… lulz
What use is a perk that gives you faster shipment delivery and villager_seconds saved IF you age AFTER your opponent?? And what use is a faster assortment of 700 res if it’s not put to immediate use??
Imo to optimize this 900f age you want to age faster than opponent and the whole time be farming xp!!! Building stuff making units. After being 3 or 4 shipments you’ll have a strong eco to semi ff and really get that Spain train going.
Mark my words the pros will figure how to optimize this new 900f age up and I THINK it will result in a nerf.
Let me less cynical. Spain is not known for economic prowess except on water or a full tp stage coach. Instead Spain is about execution timing and faster shipments and units that play best by being constantly in your face (rods lancers pikes musk huss etc).
How can 900f help Spain do what it does best? Or help cover Spain blind spots without sacrificing its perks?
IMO go up 12/10 and builtmd tp asap!!! You’ll be sacrificing early eco HOWEVER you’ll soon get it all bk and more!! In transition cut wood for a 2nd tp and 1 house!! The rest of your transition villager seconds is on food!! Here is the very very very very very very important thing to do (I mess it up everytime). Send your 2nd shipment to arrive exactly after you hit age 2. Also already have your forward villager(s) otw anticipating the resources hitting your bank upon aging up.
I do exactly this. Tp start 12/10 up cut 300w build 2nd tp TIME 2ND SHIPMENT send forward vil once resource hit build a military building and a CHURCH!! 3RD CARD IS ALSO 300W that 3rd card will come in before!!! Uour batch of units que completed which means you will not be housed if you can execute!!
From there its all up to how well you can keep up the pressure and tempo and utilizing your instant resources to force your opponent idle or off his original plan especially since he’d likely then you’d ff!!!
The 900f age up like someone mentioned is a heavily experience point dependent building order. IMO you HAVE to 12/10 in order to click up by 2:30 which is standard idle-less 15vil 800f age up. And I argue you might as well build the tp with that starting wood and cut for a house in transition. And to be able to spam shipments you have to build multiple building church tp and create units, which is why I suggest a rush or some very aggressive start. The gimmick behind the new 900f perk is to have the 90s saved from gathering 700 resource crates pay for the fact you had 0 free resources for not doing a standard 800f age up. THE other gimmick to the 900f that helps pay for itself is the 20s saved waiting for a standard crate shipment.
The question is HOW can saving 20s on shipment arrivals and saving 87.5s on crate gathering be leveraged to give Spain an advantage EARLY?
Fun fact in terms of resource crates the 700w age 2 shipment is the ONLY age 2 crate that has an effective higher villager seconds value over the logicians age 1 resource crate counter part. In plain English, bc you DO NOT have to gather ANY of the resources for age 1 crates thru the 900f age up perk, the 300f and 300g crates net more overall worth than the age 2 700f and 700g (IFF the 20s faster arrival of the logicians age 1 can be leveraged then ALL the age 1 resources crates are better than age 2 resource crates) . Granted you get an assortment of goods via the age 1 crates so if you need specifically ONE resource and nothing else than the age 2 is better in that rare case.
Hello guys
I wrote a guide for this strategy over on ESO-Community
At the moment the strat seems to have some edge in mid-colonial due it being able to create fourty musketeers from two rax constantly producing, even before the british are able to do it. This is not with the 12/10 age-up, but could still be adjusted after some testing. One also needs to keep in mind, that it is easy with this strat to amass enough ressources to que an age up for fortress and then improve your age 1 shipments with th spanish gold card.
