Instead of worrying about age 2 eco, just ff. Are you Efrain on the eso community website?
I think if you watch the first game in this series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4CEZaq8ls4, all your worries will be put to bed. Hazza carrys as spain in a 2v2 game on a non-tp map vs Mitoe and Kaiserklein and this is before the tc age up! As you can see spain are perfectly fine in team when played correctly and strong in 1v1. You just need to get over the fact that you cant play every civ in the same way.
I haven’t read the whole thread but i am just here to give my experience about spain, as biggest spain lamer.
Spain is not the worst civ and more than fine in tp map. They received a ton of buff since RE (better eco, better shipement, better age up politician) and idk yet if you can play age 2 with xbow/pik since they buff inf card but i will try that!
Spain’s eco is the worst in the game. It would be nice to give them a boost with the Spanish Gold card in age 2. I saw the game and that was the first time I’ve seen Spain perform that well against civs that have much better eco than them. I’m not saying that Spain is a bad civ, and I never said that every civ has to be played the same way. All I said was that every civ should have some sort of strategy in age 2 and 3 (since most of the action happens in both of these ages). Spain is all age 3 but very little age 2. despite the fact that they can pull off a pretty good rush with their fast shipments.
Spanish gold, faster shipments! Also if they can pull off a pretty good rush in your opinion, where is the problem? Spain have strategies in age 4 why do they need to have strats in age 2? China nearly never plays in age 2, same with dutch etc… Also there are plenty of examples of spain keeping up in team games. Kaiser played spain in the same tournament and did well. I think if you watched some of the games and saw it with your own eyes youd start believe some of us whove been playing with EP balanced Spain for a long time!
I mean, I need to spend my advantage that is faster shipments, which was nerfed in the vanilla and that’s why I leave the civ useless, because that small advantage of every 3 ordinary shipments of the rest of civs I receive one more, I have to waste it on shipments of first, up age later than the rest without receiving the 500 food or 200 gold + tower and spend 2 shipments to compensate this, first age shipments and force me to pass to the third age to send the Spanish gold for equal my economy with the economy of the rest of European civs. In the end, I do not have the advantage of shipments because I need to spend them to equal my economy with the others nor do I have a better economy than the others because these advantages begin to be noticed from the third age, I believe friends that something is wrong in this equation.
For not talking about the metagame that are the ranged units that Spain has no advantage in this, not even its historical arquebusiers lol, forcing me to be able to compete in this metagame using the unction wasting more resources that I do not have with my bad economy and more shipments
Every other civ can use their economic bonus from the start but Spain has to go age 3 to get Spanish Gold (which is their economic bonus)? The problem with their rush is that other civs can lean on their economic bonuses after a rush but Spain can’t because they don’t really have an economic bonus. An age 2 Spanish Gold is risky and yet rewarding in the long run. And just because a civ has had some success in a few tournaments doesn’t mean they are perfectly balanced. I’m just here to have a discussion about Spain and how we can make them more fun and balanced to play.
Spain use their faster shipments from minute 0. Spanish gold is a card not an economic advantage built into the civ. I think in terms of balance they are very balanced. In terms of being fun that is entirely subjective
Like duck said, spanish gold. Plus now you can age 3 with tc wagon
You have 2 falc and a ton of shipement to complement them. Your compo is skirm rodo most of the time, and you can add lancer later. Skirm rodo lancer is very scary. Also, in some mu, you can skrim goon + unction.
Ofc your skirm not good as iro/dutch but in early age 3 you have falc, and later you have a lot of other option
Not necessarily. They have all the right characteristics to be a decent age 2 civ as well (with the fast shipments, good units, and some cards). That’s what makes them really good in my opinion - their flexibility.
I disagree. They have “Archaic Infantry Training” which works great for pike-crossbow rush. They have the church corselet upgrade for musks (better for team games). They have the hand infantry upgrades which are great for Rodeleros and Pikes (even though Rods and Pikes need a slight buff). Your faster shipments let you send more resources or more troops. The fact that you can send Unction in the Colonial Age is great but isn’t taken advantage of because it’s too expensive (which is why Missionary shipments would be awesome). You also have the cav upgrade cards in Colonial Age (if only they had a 3 Hussar shipment in the Colonial Age). And with the new Logistician politician, you can add more cards in the Colonial Age for troops and upgrades.