Spain Upgrade and Italy Repair

Hello everyone! After playing the game for 1300 hours, I found some problems in it and would like to discuss their solutions. Maybe this topic will be useful.

EXPERIENCE

Let’s start with the production of experience. To test this, I started the treaty and took all the experience cards for the selected nations and began to build only the economy. I got the following results at 40 minutes:

  • French 17 shipments
  • Italy 16 shipments
  • Spain 16 shipments
  • Portugal 14 shipments
  • Dutch 14 shipments

So what is our advantage: 2-3 shipments after 40 minutes of play. I wonder how long it will be to take advantage of the French team card that gives +0.10 exp trickle LOL. Not to mention the fact that in the classic by the 40th minute someone is already won. I can’t say for sure whether it is necessary to change the experience products into a minus or a plus, but Italy should receive more cards for the crazy spam of the Lombard buttons. Basic experience production from one church is 0.70. Italy has 3 Basilicas (+3.0) and 5 Lombards (+1.25). And the differences appear only at 40 minutes. These actions should be beneficial, but they only compensate for themselves.

PAPAL SHIPMENTS

I don’t know if there is any possibility of putting them in the position of American federal states cards. It is very inconvenient to first switch to the Basilica during a battle, and then, if you want to cancel the shipment, call the deck.

PAPAL GURDS

Maybe I’m stupid and don’t understand something, but why does papal guard have 27 damage at maximum? This is a basic halberdier with inverted armor that arrives in batches of 7 once per minute. So why does he have 44% less damage?!!!

LOMBARD

Having started using lombards with an initial amount of resources, I got the following results:

  • 800=>799=>923=>985=>1048=>1172 (10 minutes)

It turns out that using something other than gold is unprofitable. Then I decided to see if there would be any changes after Usury shipment:

  • 1641(gold and wood)=>(insert 1750 food)=>3583(gold and wood)
  • 1641+1750=3391; 3583-3391=192 bonus res (Oh yeah! It works. But this card is not worth it, it is better to take another boost for units, or speed for peasants.)

Lombards, as I understand it, are supposed to compensate for the lack of factories for Italians, but they don’t do this. Italy currently has the weakest economy in the game.
Perhaps this is a very useful building for island maps where you can generate wood faster than everyone else.

SPANISH DOGS

It’s a shame that India, Inca and Aztec can fully train pets, Ethiopia can mass them from shipments, but Spain only has a neutered version of this ability. Yes, Spanish dogs deal crazy damage. I once saw how this helhound devoured a cuirassier. But wouldn’t it be better to reduce their damage and increase their number? So I want to change the Conquistador card:

  • Damage 8(-7)

  • Conquistador Heroes get +50% hit points and attack; War Dogs get +20% hit points and attack; +5 War Dogs build limit with every age up, Rodelero use a charged ‘Pistol Attack’

  • TEAM Fencing and K9 Instructor Heroes get +20% hit points and attack; Pets get +5% hit points and attack

RODELERO

A Spanish unit that is never used by anyone, at least after age 3. This is because it does ridiculous damage comparable to a tercio. What’s also funny is that this unit was nerfed from time to time. That is, the developers think that he is too strong LOL! But I’m talking about the fact that the unit is not used in the game at all. As does the conquistador card if the player is targeting the late game. Spain also has a team card that increases the damage of melee infantry, which is useless for the Spaniards themselves.:

  • Rodelero

Hit points

135

Damage

15 Hand (+4)

Bonus damage

×2.0 vs. Cavarly
×2.25 vs. Shock Infantry

Pistol Attack

Automatically activated when attacking with a cooldown of 40 seconds; requires the “Conquistador” Home City Card: Charged ability that performs a ranged pistol attack which does 15 damage from a range of 12; has a multiplier
2.0 vs. Cavarly; 2.25 vs. Shock Infantry

And some shipment upgrade:

  • TEAM Hidalgos +Rodelero train time -10%

This is necessary so that the rodelero can fight with someone other than spearmen and cavalry.

Or

Reduce the cost of this unit by -15 resources so that its cost is comparable to its effectiveness.

For now, I only use rodelero as a useless meat shield when the enemy start mass producing halberdiers. They can’t defeat halberdiers, but they can block them. But his upgrade to the imperial age costs the same as a musketeer.


So let’s summarize the results on dogs and rodeleros. These two cards and the change in characteristics will offer Spain a new build, in which the cavalry will be weaker, but the player will concentrate on archaic infantry and dogs. You yourself gave them a unique unit, why did you make it uniquely useless?

As for Italy, it’s not at all clear what’s broken. Most likely EVERYTHING. So we can start with small changes and see what happens.

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Creo que sería muy op si aumentan el número de perros. Son muy fuertes los perros en el ff, y el explorador hace de cuartel móvil.

Los rodeleros nunca me gustaron, no tiene ningún sentido que sean una unidad anticaballería. España debería estar más enfocada en sus piqueros, y los rodeleros ser una unidad secundaria. Los rodeleros podrían haber sido una unidad contra infanteria pesada, como un urumi.

wut? Dude just what? I dont even have a snappy response to this. Yes, Yes people make rods all the time all the ages because speed 6 40%MR anti cav is fantastic. Lancer Rod is spains iconic comp after the 2 falc shipment. These dudes almost carry several matchups on their own

I really encourage you to watch more high level supremacy gameplay if you are finding you cant get value out of these…

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I thought about making them a counter-infantry unit, but firstly this role is already occupied by the caballero, and secondly Spain playing from the infantry loses the counter-cavalry soldier when they run out of wood. So no, bad idea. Moreover, if you increase their damage, their armor and speed will be enough for combat with melee infantry.

And yes: YAY EVERYONE WANTS MORE DOGS.

On the first point: why? You already have dragoons to fight the cavalry. Make a squad that is easily killed by skirmishers, which will run for a long time to reach the cavalry, or a dragoon that, standing still, will kill the cavalry that approached your skirmishers. If we are talking about age 2, then the tercio takes over this function. On the second point: I watched a top 15 player play Spain. One of ours leaved and we were left 2v3. He fought against two. I watched him play and for some reason he built tercios and musketeers from the heavy infantry; I didn’t see a single rodelero there. Do you know why? See point 1.

Rodelero loses in the entire tercio. It’s more expensive, it doesn’t have armor against ranged damage, it only has 60 more HP, and only 7 more damage. So why use it, it’s just stupid. That’s the problem: its only purpose is not counter-cavalry, but to be a meat shield against melee infantry. It may be good against dragoon raids, but as an independent combat unit it is trash.

Because its optimal
Rods beat hvy cav in melee. Handedly. Vs sipahi, cuirs, uhlan masses you dont have to kite and give ground. Infact you push around these types of units because 5 sipahi will poof is seconds vs rods. Especially when falc pushing these zone off your artillery and let them dictate the ranged war.

Rods also beat skirms in melee if they cam connect. The skirm player has less micro potential vs speed 6 infantry and the 40% melee armor plus high base melee ensures vs most skirms they chop them up easily should they catch.

They also demolish goons if they can catch them. 5 rods can force goons very far back. Vs cav archers WWs jav riders or any slower goons they are simply death.

And spain has no ranged infantry shipments but very good value rod shipments. Your skirms and goons are basic so massing an inferior stat comp (spanish goon skirm is basic ) without unit shipments is not as good nor viable till late game. What is good? Lancers which you have shipments of and shred infantry. Perfect comp into many civs.

So rods force alot of micro, are massable easily, complement spains shipments, are incredibly nasty when they connect and ensure the 2 falcs (or 2 hvys) of many spain builds are able to do their thing easier. Unless vs mass artillery or skirm wall or mass of goons in open they gonna dictate your opponent options. Incredible little guys for those with decent micro and understanding.

3 Likes

AHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Yes! I agree. If the rodellero has a triple advantage in numbers. Or you can just build Lancers for this res… You are trying to somehow justify their use. In fact, there is no need to build rodeleros during the entire game. Crossbowman outrange dragoons. And they are cheaper :confused:

What elo and what game mode are you basing your assessments off of?

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  1. If unit a trash, it trash in all gamemods. :man_shrugging:

It might be better if the Rodelero becomes a light infantry unit specialized against archaic units.

btw, I don’t really like that other explorers’ dogs cannot be killed but the Spanish explorer’s dogs can.

If make rodelero light infantry it will be too OP. Because light infantry cannot be countered. He will defeat any. I mean anyone at all.

Heavy cavalry and shock infantry?

No se puede darle más daño base al rodelero porque se vuelve op. Sería muy bueno contra caballería y contra infanteria, y hasta cañones. Si le dieran más daño contra infanteria pesada deberían quitarle daño contra caballería, podria ser que quedara con 10 de daño base, x 1,5 contra caballería e infanteria pesada.

Igual a mi me gustaría que España se enfocara más en los piqueros, el combo de España debería ser piqueros qué cuesten monedas más un escaramuzador con aspecto del siglo 16 y 17. Más los lanceros.

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O algo así

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cept its not considered trash. unless you just z moving them or have bad micro. Nor is it considered such by most players so I would prehaps learn from better spanish players. Watch any vids with rohbot, shake, or any of the older pros since the units functionally the same since legacy and you’ll get to see how what I said makes sense when you know how to use spain effectively.

3 Likes

rodeleros are iconic, I love the way they scare off goons so easily. They’re easy to acquire in the necessary numbers and do everything melee infantry needs to do, and they do it extremely well. They scale well while never being expensive.

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Same error as everyone else. Counter does not mean that a unit defeats another unit in battle. This means that the unit has multiplayer. Hussars do not have multiplayer against light infantry, which means that in a battle a hussar with 20 ranged armor against an infantryman with 40 melee armor, lastone have advantage.

They are good at fighting dragoons and good at raiding at age 2. That’s all they do well. If this is enough for you from an imperial unit that gets an upgrade from 5 shipments, then you don’t understand how the economy works in this game.

As for the tercios, I would give them back the 10 HP that was taken away from them when they were given the armor and add +1 damage to the imperial upgrade. Overall they are quite good. And replacing the classic skirmishers with real Spanish arquebusiers would be nice.

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