They’re terribly weak; a 3 pop Hersir is weaker than a Berserker without upgrades. This is completely unacceptable.
I think they need a buff.
I think they need a buff.
Besides the point hersir and all heroes are meant to be less cost efficient than human units. Otherwise there would be no point in making said human units. (We had the case on china release that pinoeers where better archers than fire archers and so you never made fire archers) –> Fixed
Thou i do get people mis OG aom where hersir did fairly well vs anything and loki would just make hersit
As to your simulations
- Oracle vs hersir: Oracle is more expensive, its the base oracle + the hero conversion its double the gold cost of a hersir while same kinda food cost, theres no reason it should loose to it, and thats without accounting for the favor cost (10 normal res per 1 favor
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Your argument is weak because Berserkers are even cheaper than Hersirs. Hersirs too weak and too expensive. So, we have the opposite situation. Norse players don’t build them AT ALL. Now everyone spams Jarls, Godi and Throwing Axemen.
berserk arent heroes.
All generalist beat hersir, hoplite, berserk, murmillo. I used cost in the oracle dynamic.
Now thats a lie if i ever saw one. Hersir are made plenty, godi will work better once avaialable in many scenarios, but being powercrept by another unit that comes later is not abnormal in aom.
But according to the game’s design, only anti-infantry troops should defeat the Hersir 1v1.
Dunno if that has ever been the case in retold. Specially since hersir have low hack armor, wouldnt surprise me if cav units also won vs them
even in the OG game, generalis units would beat hersir, and neither murmillo or hoplite had bonus vs infantry, thou that might be on them being more cost effcient vs them
He has an infantry tag, a hero tag, 3 pop, more resourses and stats worse than a Berserker. Isn’t it obvious that no one will build this unit, and no one builds it anyway. When was the last time you played against Norse? How many Hersirs were there?
I mean i guess its due to our experiences. Anytime i face good norse players they make hersir. Again this is not some hidden information, you can look at good norse players games and see that they do in fact build hersir. There was a touney last weekend and theres been a tg tourney, in all game modes they see play.
What i do agree you wont see happening is the OG loki dyamic of ONLY making hersir, that is indeed something people dont do.
Now you dont need to play the same way the 2000s player does, check any norse in 1500s they are making hersir.
Dunno where the narrative that norse doesnt make hersir comes from.
First of all, hersis aren’t anti-MU. They’re Egyptian obelisks, Atlantean oracles; they’re not specialized counter-units. I think this needs to be clarified. They generate favor. That’s their primary function. So if you play MU or GP, you need to build them, but you cant because even eggy spearman dangerous for them.
Secondly:
My last fight 2v2. I stand against Thor (green)
Other examples from different matches:
My favorites^
1400 team Elo Loki (88 apm) looks like:
Same thing with priests. They don’t have an infantry tag, so they’re made even weaker. They are as weak as the hersir.
Yes they are, like them or not thats their function.
No, its not. they are heroes
You can make yourself our your similar elo players the standard of how good player play, thou then yu would need to be that player. Can always learn from other players, specially better ones.
I learned from “Loki 0 Hersirs” that whoever builds more Hersirs loses. He plays much better than me.
This method generates favor. The Greeks send vills to the temple, the Egyptians build obelisks, and the Norse build hersirs and fight with them. However, if I build them, I’ll lose because they’re just anti-MU only, so play without favor generation. This your thesis
Would be interesting to see the guy. Also sounds more of a guy doing a challenge than the better way to play, but you do you.
They do several things, but their primary role is anti myth units. Same way priest build obelisk and heal, but they are still heroes. Thor is not loki, so dunno why you link a thor unique upgrade, but sure the upgrade boosts hersir favor mechanic, both in giving them damage and the passive.
Also hersir passive favor is very slow compared to all other means of favor, norse still gets most of their favor income from battle.
In the Mythic Age, Hersirs are unnecessary; the battles there require me to use Fimbulwinter three times. But in the Classical and Heroic Ages, I’d like to be able to gain more favor and more Loki ability. Hersirs generate favor in combat—you’re right, and it’s the same problem as the Aztecs. Their priests collect tonalli, but they can’t fight because they’re too fragile. Therefore, Norse receive the favor that generic soldiers receive, while the Aztec priests stand passively aside from the army. Now, with the Aztecs, it’s clear that the complaints about Hersirs were justified. An expensive unit that also eats up population, but is only good for killing scarabs.
If the Aztecs had a choice, they wouldn’t have built priests, believe me. If you simply turn off all means of gaining favor with Norse except the warring Hersirs, you will see the howl that will rise. It’s just that most Egyptians only build one monument, so no mass complains about the Hersirs. But with the Aztecs, this became more apparent because they have no choice. So, all the problems with warrior priests can easily be transferred to the Hersirs. It’s just that with Norse, favor is generated by all units.
You can still need them on some scenarios, particularly fast land myth units
This seems to be less the case, been seeing on more and more games many heroes be made and they hold their ground fairly well.
Dunno how this is the case, but lets hear it.
I think you tend to overexagerate that i cant support the dynamic at all. “People dont make hersir” “Hersisr dont function as heroes” “No one makes hersir past X mark” And its so easy to dismiss and prove wrong, specially when the reference is a guy whose name is a challenge run.
This applies to literaly all civs, excep greek maybe. If you dont need to deal with MU you are not spamming priest as eggy at all,1-2 heal, the free one for obelisk and thats it. Heroes whole purpose is to deal with myth units, if theres none most of the time you arent spamming heroes, Norse is not in a unique struggle in this case.
That said, aztec priest having no hero tag atually makes the worthwhile making into pure counter comps, very similar to greek heroes.
So its not all…. while hersir are also a builder for all structures, not just a few. And Norse having godi unlike aztecs means half of the issues fall flat. Hersir not having a 15 favor button to transform or do something else also doesnt exist for them.
Godi kills everything except scarabs, colossuses and behemothes. He is more profitable in 100% of cases.
No, that’s not true. The only ones who build heroes 100% of the time are the Greeks.
I’m sure I’m not the only one complaining about hersirs. After all, almost no one builds them.
For these 52 hersirs it would have been possible to build 30 jarls and finish the match 10 minutes earlier.
From your level of play, tell me why build them after the classical age?
Have you ever played Nephthys? When you have 10 priests healing your army, you suffer 50% fewer losses?
If these are Japanese or Chinese heroes who are only needed to kill MU, no problem. But if a hero has another function, they must fulfill it. If you pick Nephthys, the priests will fulfill their purpose. I even think she’s the strongest minor god for Egypt. And how can I make the Hersirs fulfill their purpose? Thor, for example, who has bonus upgrades in the Forge and a separate Hersir upgrade, still can’t do it.
The point is that no one is building Hersers even to fight MU. This is a trash unit as a raid cavalry.
I assure you, if you give the Aztecs a ranged hero, you will never see a single warrior priest in the game again.
And all the other high pierce damage myth units that hersir would do bette,r also any unit faster than godi that raids hersir would also see use
I mean you contradict yourself just below
Ohh you are def not alone, you will find some one else complaining about every single thing in the game. Not being alone isnt much of a case for everything. Im also not the only one that would say norse players are crying for most of their units, and that doesnt carry any value by itself.
Read the exampls above. I am still waiting on you showing me the no hersir loki guy to see his top level games, alas.
Well yea, and hersir both build and gather favor, they do their other no hero functions. It feels you are going about complains for the sake of them, you are contradicting yourself in like half of them it woudl seem.
This is so false its funny. Just like no good pos player makes centaur or no centaur raids 1600s disconected from high level gameplay completely.
Who besides siege units has a lot of piercing armor? Boars and Jotuns are killed very quickly by godi. Same for fatty Chinese sausages with wings.
I always build 2-4 priests for Egypt for healing, if that’s what you mean, but only if I go to Nephthys I build 10.
I already explained that most players simply play without hersirs.
Play with any of your friends of your level against any Norse. And you’ll see that Hersirs don’t build after the classics.
I’m not contradicting myself, you just don’t have any arguments.
I watch tournaments on YouTube and haven’t seen Norse build Hersirs. For example, in that Ronin vs Vindicare game, 9 Hurricanes by Sussano. He built 20 hersirs in 46 minutes, despite being constantly attacked by MU. You look funny when you run out of arguments.
I dont see a point to keep going about this one.
I provide info, you dismiss it with no cause, i say we can play it out so i can show you, you run away and ignore it. You hyper focus on 1 guy that has a name of a challenge run and dont even bother to show him. You shift to another topic once you have nothing motre to add to the previous one. Ill just let it be, keep exagerating your short coming and pinning them on some external dynamic.
Dont improve for all you want and keep blaming X unit, refuse to even bother checking out better players than yourself or take thier advice.
It’s really hard to keep a thread going when it’s discussing a unit, and you’re trying to discuss skills. Did I ever say that my problems with Elo are because Hersir is a trash unit? I simply said the unit is useless. You figured out the rest yourself. And do you know why? Because you know that:
It’s very difficult to have a discussion with a hypocrite. You say, “Look at the professionals.” I’ve looked. I gave you the example of a fight between a ronin and a Vindicare. The ronin didn’t build much hersirs and still won. I said I’ve watched players who play better than me, and they don’t build hersirs. And what did you say to that? You’re a fool, you’re looking in the wrong place. Okay. As you say. That kind of discussion is impossible.
And you avoided discussing the Aztek “hersirs” even though I persistently suggested it to you.
Myth units have been buffed in Retold compared to before, which indirectly makes heroes better too.
In the past hero units needed to be better against human units because their role of fighting myth units was less important. But now the role of dealing with myth units alone makes them worth having around.
And the other point is do Hersir have to be an important units? Why is it wrong if they are mostly just being used in Classical Age before Godi become available? You could also complain about Jarls making Raiding Cavalry useless in Heroic Age.
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