I’ve seen manu pro games where a player won with just spamming ratha from Castle Age on. Some pro, including Hera, already called then OP even, so i really do not know if that’s true.
It seems a ture powerhouse of a unit atm to me
Me too. But Ratha needs some time to be massed.
No disrespect, but I bet he made this assumption based on only 2 matches. One of them is his (Chinese) lost against Lord in RF and other one was his win against Villese (Mongols). Also its only the UU, not the civ as a whole. Kind of similar to WW of Koreans.
I think they are designed to be “gg” once gold is run out.
The civ isnt gg when gold runs out they have average trash and great economy.
And I dont see why they should die in trash wars balance wise
Me neither considering their very weak early to mid game.
I honestly won’t mind last infantry armor. Was just curious about your reasons. I want to go for one step at a time though. If my proposed new bonus is added, infantry armor can wait.
Yeah i was talking about the UU, i do believe the UU Is incredibily strong, but the civ as a whole is ok, so kinda similar to koreans sotuation
Reminds me an old Koreans bonus that was removed.
Fortifications are built 33% faster.
Faster building Castle will help Ratha play. Faster wall is always good to have. And faster towers will protect them from early aggression and also give them the option to TRUSH.
faster towers with 2 extra villagers in feudal? seems dangerous to me
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Yeah extra villagers may as well be 25% faster stone miners
Won’t be more dangerous than Poles I guess. Having two/three TRUSH civ won’t be bad for the game.
Speaking of Poles, I was thinking for another bonus - Opposite of Poles bonus. Gold miners generate stone at 10% or 15% of gold collection rate. I think this will be okay. Actually I’m finding an way to make Ratha play easier as Elephant play in 1v1 is almost impossible to be meta.
How about sticking with their Elephant focus and making Elephant Units 10% cheaper?
Its a very minor bonus and won’t change their abysmal state by much. They’re very dependent on UU and yet their UU isn’t a raiding type. Its a late game UU. They need thumb ring with Ratha base rof adjusted so that they can be played like an Arb-halb/light cav civ.
Benvalis does not seem bad to me atm and the Castle is the only thing that atm keeps the ratha from being totally OP imho so i would not make their massing any easier tbh
This wouldn’t help. Malay has a massive discount and yet they are 2nd or 3rd to bottom in Arabia and used to be the bottom before Bengalis. And they are in that spot for a long time. Actually both Bengalis and Malay have some common problems. Not usable knight and relying heavily on Elephants as a substitute.
True. Their base attack and speed are just too low to raid in Castle age.
I’m completely against it though it may work.
I don’t see them anywhere close to OP UUs (Mostly CA) like Mangudai, Conqs or Camel Archer. So I’ll disagree.
I think the mid-game is when the Bengalis really need to be buffed in. They’re always stronger on closed maps and weaker on open maps. Even in team game, the Bengalis are still a poor choice when it comes to fighting in the Castle Age. To me, what they lack is actually gold unit strategies that transitions from the weakest mid-game into their strong late game, not a better trash unit.
Currently, once the Bengalis need to fight in the Castle age, they either use the advantage of having 4 more villagers to create Crossbowmen or Monks, or delay the booming and Imerial age to create expensive elephants or Rathas earlier. I think providing a smoother transition from crossbowmen or monks to elephants or Rathas is the best purpose. If Thumb Ring is not allowed (even I think TR is the easiest way), cheaper Monasteries are indeed one way to go. Or/And, in a whimsical way, make the archer armor line also work on the cavalry and remove the cavalry armor line, so that the archer and the cavalry share the same armor tech. Once players change from Crossbowmen to elephants, they don’t have to research armor from scratch.
Maybe:
Spear-line: + 1-2 spearmen armor
Skirmishers: + 1-2 archer armor OR +1-2 attack to speanmen…
OR + wood, food when Spear-line , Skirmishers kill other units.
Exactly.
And that’s why in team games, on open maps, Bengalis shouldn’t play as pocket.
They don’t have a viable unit for pocket plays in castle age.
As flank they can play crossbows, pretending they’re Vikings, but as pocket they don’t have anything to offer to support flanks, neither knights nor camels is a big hole.
The units transitions is very problematic for them. If you go from archers to battle elephants you have to research everything, even from archers to Rathas you still have to research stuff specifically for them as they only share fletching/bodkin and ballistics as most likely nobody upgrades crossbows armor (but you need it if you want to raid with Ratha), and missing Thumb Ring means you have to tech specifically into the UT, which you don’t need for xbows, plus you need Castles.
Conversely the transition from xbows to cavalry archers is smoother (compared to xbows => Rathas), plus they share the same production building.
The transition from xbows to EA is instead hampered by the need of a robust food eco, which a player might not have if was set to build loads of xbows that don’t require food.
Obviously those closed map post-imperial boom games are easier, you don’t have to transition into anything, as you specifically tech into what you want to use, taking advantage of the free vills.
Ah, almost forgot it, to take full advantage of the Siege Elephant you also need to tech at least into cavalry armors, super easy for Hindustanis and Gurjaras, but not that easy for Bengalis and Dravidians.
TL,DR:
Bengalis unit transitions is problematic.
Xbows => Rathas => both wood/gold units, share attack/range, but ranges =/= Castles, UT just for Ratha needed, plus arch armor (& PT) to raid + Husbandry/Bloodlines
Xbows => EA => both range units, share attack/range, but one wood/gold, other food/gold, UT just for EA, plus husbandry/Bloodlines needed (and archer armor/PT)
Xbows => BE you start from scratch and go from wood/gold to HEAVY food/gold.
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I agree on that.
True.
There is nothing like allowed or not allowed. Giving them TR will look ugly in my eyes. Look how Paik tech is designed. It is literally TR for Ratha and EA without giving the accuracy and not making FU archer line. As for monastery, it is actually not that helpful in open maps where they are struggling. They will always be a better closed map civ, but they need a bigger help than cheaper monastery in open maps.
I likes this one a lot. A good way to help playing their main units - Ratha or BE or EA. Even Armored elephant will be powerful.
Sounds too small tbh.
This is very gimmicky.
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Well the difference is that they have such good eco that you can actually boom behind ratha while war wagon is usually rather all in-ish.
They don’t have the dmg potential of these units but in the long run ratha beats these kinds of units (except for camel ofc bc of bonus dmg) because it is super tanky and has lots of pierce armor. It’s basically a weaker but more mobile and way cheaper version of the elephants archer (if we disregard the switch mechanic for a moment). So it beat almost every ranged units once fully upgraded and thus makes are very strong late game unit.
Is it op? I don’t know. It takes some time to get to this point so it might be fine. I just wish bengalis had a little bit less focus on this unit bc on open maps that’s what they do most of the time.
I think this should be the main strategy devs want, but it’s currently the hardest to execute.
That’s why I came up with the idea of combining archer and cavalry armor techs.
Ugly but effective. Even if the Bengalis got the thumb ring, their Elephant Archers could not be stronger than those of the Dravidians. And Rathas don’t seem to be a problem even if they’re a little stronger.
Don’t underestimate the monks on the open map. They are one of the main means of defending against Knights, Camels, Conquistadors and War Wagons in the Castle age, which is the same for every civilization. In the Castle Age, once the Bengalis have insufficient crossbowmen, they would have relied heavily on the monks to resist the Knights.
That’s Imperial age and I agree that Ratha with Paik and PT is pretty strong. Unlike elite Conqs which is almost the same as non-elite one. But my point was more about Castle age.
Or more focus on other things so their pretty open tech tree becomes useful.
Well why not beautiful, excellent and effective instead? Your armor share bonus is really excellent and imo more effective than TR.