Steam Pup Notes Feedback: Initial Thoughts

Overall, I really like many of the civ changes (Kremlin tbd). However, there are a couple of some base game balance and use changes that I want to call out as having issues for myself.

Hardest AI: " * The Hardest AI now receives a 2x resource gathering bonus. This also affects income received from passive sources such as sacred sites and relics."

I HATE HATE HATE cheating AIs. Yes, it is hard to make a good AI, but I hate it when the AI cheats. To me this feels like an incomplete answer to a solution. What this game could use is a proper handicap system like AOE3. I personally don’t want any AI to cheat in the base game setup. I would rather remove this one change out of the AI balance changes, let the other changes go through, and then implement a proper custom lobby handicap system for both AI and players for season 5. I would rather wait for a full good solution than this partial solution. Please. If you don’t want to do that, just take out this from hardest ai and make a duplicate option with the cheating ai getting an “*” or something next to the name.

Second issue: " * When provoked, Boar will now seek revenge on their attacker and ignore nearby innocents."
I think I get where this is coming from. Maybe you are seeing that this is creating toxicity or something on the ladder. When dealing with players of all ratings there’s a fine line for stuff like this where new players will leave from little mechanics like this. However, it was very fun to see this used on a high level in tournaments and such. How about a compromise? Remove this behavior from quick play and ranked queues, but add it in as a custom toggle for custom skirmishes and lobbies? Could see about reverting wolf change maybe or combining it. I don’t know. Could call it something like “Animal Aggression (x)”.

Last big concern: " * Stone Walls * Health reduced from 3500 to 3000"
-I think this is missing the mark a bit. Stone walls are currently too strong in feudal and perhaps a bit too strong overall, but a flat reduction for this type of defense kind of makes it awkward depending on age.
I would rather stone walls changed/nerfed/buffed depending on the age through a staggered buff system. I would change the following if you want to keep stone walls in feudal.

-Stone wall hitpoints now 2800/3000/3200 in feu/cas/imp. (Health higher in imp so trebs still take 7 shots (515x6=3090).
-Stone wall ranged damage reduction reduced from a flat -66% to -15%/-30%/-45% or even -20%/-40%/-60% if you think units need more in imperial. (I personally would prefer the lower buff and then it could be a small civ buff for a future civ like Byzantines. Like an extra -15%, but those are just dreams :slight_smile: )
-Stone wall bonus range changed to +0/+1/+2 for feu/cas/imp.
-Stone wall base build time changed to 24sec/20sec/16sec for feu/cas/imp.

Also I guess, stone wall tower and siege tower rework when :slight_smile: ?

Thank you for continuing to update the game. I think most of the new changes will be really fun. There’s just a few…I guess I’d call them “fun killers” that despite all the other awesomeness, I dislike.

6 Likes

The other time they sent us to debate on steam

Agree.

Agree

Agree. Also, Fitzbro agreed in his Youtube video on the patch notes. I watch AOE 2 sometimes, and the game play is defined by little unintended mechanics like quick walls and dodging arrows. I know AOE 4 tries to get rid of these, but I think you can go too far in cleaning up the game play. There was never a time I saw a boar pull and did not enjoy it. Aussie Drongo uses it as click bait for his videos. I see this as a big loss for the excitement of the game even though it was not an intentional mechanic.

You saved me the time in writing up my own post to point out those two things.

Overall, I am very happy with the season. The 6 new units seem hype. Other than the new units and some cool landmark changes, I see a hundred improvements that the casual player would not really notice. I mean, they do add up, but mostly for the serious players who stress over the tiny things. I would like to see things that appeal to the casual player like animal variety with the biomes like gazelle instead of deer in Sahara.

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I’m reaallyy disappointed with this cop out AI Hardest solution. Such a lazy approach. It should be improved through better tactics, and any gathering changes, etc. should be as a separate handicap option.

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Yep!

But, AOE4’s Hardest AI always ignores and flees from more enormous armies to let its units die without dealing any damage. This is what Relic needs to fix the AI. Current AI’s always do that, they flee like cowards and die. Ai needs to fight if it sees an enemy unit.

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Eliminating boar pull/micro is probably the worst change to date aside from the overall trade buffs that have made the game much less enjoyable and playable. I really enjoyed the micro around the boar.

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With these resource gathering changes to the hardest AI, it sounds like they gave up on using machine learning in training the AI

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i liked almost all the changes guess which one i didnt like ottoman changes they only get text correction and sound volume adjustment :D:D:D wtf man does ottoman that op :D:D:D what it should be done with ottomans devs pls read this:

  • Grand galley cost need to reduced and for to turn grand galley in to millitary schools need to be cost resouces so we dont pay the unnecessary resources for nothing

  • İstanbul İmperial Palace needs to give some bonuses to some or all vizier bonuses because there is no reason to build it while you have the Mehmed Imperial Armory

  • Also a ottoman horse archer unit needed

i liked the other changes to other civs but red palace change for french seems broken to me but we need to test it and see,also even if the king of the king comes out from abbey of kings i think everybody still gonna chose council hall

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I am so sure that devs dont like ottomans so they dont give anything good about ottomans. Bad land mark choices,bad jans, sipahi, grand bombard vs. Ottomans is about just spamming units.Devs dont surprise me.

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i actually only find İstanbul İmperial Palace landmark unnecessary others seems fine and sipahi definetly needs a buff either their ability shouldnt take bonus melee damage or their cost and train time needs to be same with normal horseman.Great bombards is great but unfairness here is english gets the same effect with trebs which is cheaper and have so much range,with this update french get area damage to their canons too,janissary only needs a health buff and they will be good i hope they add to the changes or ottomans will be the new delhi of the game(they can add more bonus damage to buildings for great bombard)

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They really need to add a new AI difficulty rather than remove the current one. Hardest AI should stay as the best non-cheating AI and then a new difficulty added for the one with cheats call it ‘Extreme’ ‘Intense’ ‘Unfair’ or something.

9 Likes

I agree the change of the collection AI is a bad idea because personally I prefer to face a gameplay close to a real player and then if I put it down I leave in ranked there it’s just useless next to the other improvements made to the AI

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calling the same script with 2x resource gathering extreme isn’t quite on point naming, unfair would be funny but ain’t happening, but smt like expert (cheater) would fit

exactly xD
AOE 4 machine learning is a complete joke

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“Unfair” AI sounds extraordinary!
I bet it will have the best meme xD

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Meh. I don’t know what the logic is of keeping the most powerful civ throughout this game’s history still at the top (English), but the only way to beat it is if the opposing player is just BAD. Now, with the new Wyngard changes and Abbey change this civ is just disgustingly broken. Who cares about the castle influence nerf? No one fights under their influence, it’s just an instant loss. Only actually BAD players lose on English. I have to play vs English every 2nd game. If I could have bans in picks then ladder would still be fun. HRE still get passive buffs all the time despite getting early MAA, which is also still a broken advantage. Man #### #### I’m done.

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those changes not final dont worry

Trust me they are final. English arent strongest at game period. Turks are the strongest and thanks to devs they are the most boring civ already. I wish ottomans were first released civs at the begining so they can have some love by devs now. Ottomans are the most broken civ already.

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Turks maybe strongest in real life but this is a game it needs balance and ottoman is in at top 3 winrate civ expect conqueror league problem with them is some of their unique units which mostly nobody uses devs refusing to change them and i think only one of their lanmark needs improvement and it is İstanbul İmperial Palace

I know this is game and needs blance but this doesnt mean ottos can be beaten easly. And Rus have too much tecs but ottos dont have any tecs. Jans, spahi, grand bombard are really joke. Delhi will have too much landmark rework but ottos dont have any. Ottomans are just spamming units from military school so ottomans have any strategy options. Sultanhanı, İstanbul imperial palace, tophane armory, sea gate castle, they are all need some rework. Devs dont like ottomans. They can give whatever they want to the other civs.

3 Likes