If your opponent goes musks husk, a viable age 2 composition is just to build a castle and spam mongolian army while sending all of the CKN shipments
Here are some games(albeit not very good ones) where I did that. I am not saying that its a meta strat but there is potential there
ChinavsBrit.age3Yrec (2.2 MB) ChinavsBrit2.age3Yrec (2.4 MB) chinavsbrit3.age3Yrec (2.7 MB)
So with those numbers there are a few interesting facts
So from this number the raiding effect of the 7 stepe shipment vs the 3 hussars shipment is actually greater.
with mongolian scourge as it is it means that the 7 steppe can one shot vils
But,you must send card.Hussar can’t need send card.And 7steppers can’t against 3Hussars
Yeah but since they are faster you never want to fight them hussars anyway, they run in kill vils and run away and later act as range tanks for CKN and Keshisks
Also im not so sure that 3 hussars beat 7 steppe. The 7 steppe collectively has more HP and attack
You don’t see 3 hussar vs 7 steppes. A semi-FF always builds more than 3 Hussar. And 4-5 Hussar easily beat 7 steppes. Also 7 steppes cannot be rebuild as easily as Huss, because China always builds 2 units instead of being able to mass 1 unit.
7 Steppes hitting one villager is also very rarely not going to happen because steppes block each other.
I agree for you very much!!!
Sure but by that token you can also build a castle to pump out more steppe and keshiks to fight the huss.
I have found a trick to improve one shotting chances with the steppe, put the 7 keshiks group into defense formation, they pack really tightly and will focus hit the vils
I think that a very viable buff for china is just to grant a castle upon age up, like how there is an outpost age up. It allows for early defense and also training cav for harass very early
China’s Age 2 weakness comes from the fact that they have no Musketeer (Brit consulate helps) and no good heavy cavalry unit. Their Flamethrowers are also a joke and need buffs badly.
My suggestion to buff Steppe Riders:
Something like that should happen. Because Steppe Riders are terrible against anything thats not an Archer or a Skirmisher. You can’t guarantee that Steppes will attack those, since often times Cavalry like Hussars get in the way. This will make Steppe Riders just a little more powerful so they are more useful in a prolonged Age 2 play. Eventually, you will still switch to Age 3 cavalry units.
I agree.It’s so weak!And I think Iron hitpoint must become 300 and damage become 20
First I’d like to dispel the strange myth of this thread that keshiks compare to port goons. keshiks are never ever anything remotely similar to a port goon, because they can’t kite and they have 6 less range.
The issues w/ keshiks and steppe riders are deeper than anybody here is giving them credit for.
No kiting, no melee res. this means they need a meat shield, or they can actually lose to the units they’re supposed counter. 2 keshiks actually lose to 1 hussar if not carefully micro’d. Pikes are a good shield against cav, and steppe riders are not. This is why TAD gave us the Ming Army and not the Mongolian army. Ming army beats 3 hussars (and loses to everything else), and Mongolian army even loses to 2 hussars (unless well-micro’d). The obvious issue is that keshiks cannot perform as a ranged cav unit. It has to have pikes nearby.
Keshiks could possibly perform in the capacity of a ranged-cav role if somehow they reached a critical mass where the enemy’s pathing issues outweigh the lack of melee resist, but massing one unit is just not part of china’s toolkit, neither should it be.
Steppe riders are among the worst units in the game except when fighting non-heavy infantry. A hussar kills a steppe rider in exactly 5 hits w/ zero overkill. A steppe rider needs 22 hits to kill a hussar. Ofc they lose to heavy infantry and ranged cav as well. This means they’re a clean-up crew. If somehow all the enemy cav and heavy infantry are dead, Steppe Riders will clean the rest up efficiently.
Steppe riders are available in Standard Army and Mongolian Army. Because steppe riders and keshiks are both so squishy to hussar, Mongolian army loses to cav-dense comps, it ofc loses to all heavy infantry, and the keshiks do nothing to non-heavy infantry. The Mongolian army can’t win against any realistic unit composition. Standard army loses to any small amount of cavalry, and probably loses to pure muskets unless your micro is very solid. This means Steppe Rider armies have to be trained alongside some other army in order to form a solid unit composition, which leads me to my next point.
Steppe riders are china’s only Age II unit that costs coin. This means the macro required to train them alongside another army is very difficult to manage, and not worth the effort.
Steppe riders are okay at raiding, but the reward rarely justifies the risk. It’s difficult for 7 steppe riders to gather around a single villager, so they often kill vills more slowly than hussar do, and if they get caught by ANYTHING, they’re dead. The siege is nice, but once again, they die to everything.
IMO all three of these things have to implemented before Age II China ever moves away from pure Old Han.
Give keshiks some more HP and switch their resist to melee.
Give Steppe riders 5 more HP so they survive an extra hit from hussars.
Make Steppe riders cost 75 wood instead of 85 coin.
w/ these changes in place, from a design stance it would also make sense to put Mongolian army in the War Academy and Ming Army in the castle. This way the War academy has 2 armies for each cav, anti-cav, and ranged infantry.
I am disappointed that China’s FF is still intimidating but no one is pointing out on this. They certainly have powerful units, but many continue to demand buffs. They may be weaker than other units of the same type, but we must not forget that they are cheaper than them.
FF is act against one’s will.Please give Chinese more Choice!Thanks.Chinese only FF and Stay age2 is weakly it’s famous for the game!
Still feels like china has ■■■■ cav except the meteor hammer which is low hp
Besides China, there are many civilizations that are vulnerable to the 2age. Each civilization has its advantages as well as its disadvantages.
Oh, so China has 1 proper build that makes the civ look good. And now you argue China cannot even have that? You must have been really happy with China being trash tier from DE release up until the recent balance patch.
Why play China if you can play Spain or Germany? They are also great FF civs but they can play Colonial aswell. Germany due to their 4/6 settler shipment which gives them crazy strong economy and Spain even has a new Politician for prolonged Age 2 play by sending crates. Aussie Drongo has already made a video on it long ago.
The point is China Age 2 is too weak to be considered viable. Everything points towards FF.
We have already discussed many suggestions to give China Age 2 play more options:
Move all German trickles down by 1 Age. Unlock Food Trickle Age 1, Wood Trickle Age 2, Coin Trickle Age 3.
This will allow prolonged Age 2 play by investing into Food and Wood trickle which is still worse than settler shipment, but gives China options.
Buf Flamethrowers. More range, a little more speed, cost 3 pop instead of 4 pop, reduced wood and coin cost.
Buff Russian consulate to 10% cheaper villager production ontop of 10% faster villager production. No one is using Russian consulate apart from shipping factories.
The first Russian shipment should allow them to build Blockhouses. That would make it actually useful.
The Russian shipments should also ship a bit more units.
Buffing the consulates that are never picked wouldn’t make the existing strategies OP but would allow more options for the Chinese instead.
More options makes them less predictable. If you know the enemy has to go Fortress than you can counter them more easily.
I don’t want the advantages they have to be fine and the disadvantages they have are become advantages. Obviously they have weak 2age units, but they can train many units at once while meeting the configuration. If they want to be stronger, they have to use the card. Therefore, rather than buff their stats, it is necessary to buff the cards that upgrade the stets of the units and make them powerful on 2age.
And Chinese is not the only civilization that is vulnerable to 2age. The Dutch and non-water Portuguese are also vulnerable civilizations to the 2age. But I’ve never seen anyone making an offer for them. Would you like to argue that their weaknesses are reasonable, but China’s weaknesses are not?
My mean is Chinese FF can’t let it Chinese Only ways to play!
As I said earlier, I said it would be better for China to buff the cards against the civilization that survives in 2ages. You seem to want to provoke an argument without any understanding of my opinion.