Stop saying AOE4 is dying and needs balance

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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The fact people keep saying AOE4 is dying and needing balance is the very reason people are leaving. The game is literally fine and balance is close to where it needs to be if not where it needs to be.

People said English was bottom Tier and they’re not. People say Mongol are OP and then the current tournament they’re getting squashed. Problem is people believe what others say without taking it into consideration and actually testing themselves.

Plus it seems the player base as a whole doesn’t adapt. Siege is meant to be used on certain maps. Plain and simple. Where on others you get more diverse Feudal battles without siege. Know your map. Know your civ.

Case and point. Mista just lost to MarineLord on Lipany Mongol vs Abbasid

Abbasid goes for a 2 TC build typically. Mongol gets 300 FREE STONE to put towards a TC. Or FREE STONE to put towards aggression BEFORE the 2nd TC. They can either match the TC or choose to go aggressive. Until ACTUALLY trying one you don’t know what will WORK. If those don’t work maybe going fast castle does.

MarineLord said English are no good and lost to English vs Mista.

Stop listenting to what people say and just play the game. Learn builds and adapt.

People said Chinese were low tier yet again in the current tournament have the highest win rate.

My personal opinion is people don’t want to learn and are applying old strats to a knew game with different mechanics. Or applying one build to a civ and not adapting it into they’re own. Every civ is viable for every map and every build is viable for every civ. Just certain civs will be favored in certain circumstances so know your civ and use its strengths.

If you’re having siege problems its because your not balancing army, siege and, keep placements, along with what map your on.

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People are saying the game is dying because the player numbers keep dropping. I don’t know if it will die or not but that’s why people are saying it. The game is absolutely unbalanced, siege it broken and needs to be fixed.

Agreed tired of hearing China is underpowered

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I think the AoEIV playerbase will mimic AoEIIIDE’s playerbase, that is to say a relatively small but dedicated one. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

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In terms of action or combat AoE IV provides a glorious experience, but there are basic level improvements needed, and certain of them are lacking persistently in previous AoE franchise games. Though like its previous franchise its only better rts left.

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If a game can be wrecked merely by negative comments, then either the game has a weak basis, or the negative comments are telling the truth, or both.

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I disagree. When I started playing the game people said English were low tier. They’ve had no adjustments to their civ other than players adapting and other civs getting nerfed or buffed. The civ has never been low tier, the game simply has not been figured out yet. Its to new.

Plus water maps were atrocious. Water did need a balance.

Negative comments are a result of a player not learning. I know because I was guilty of it. I understood the game from a certain skill level and was blind to knowing what to do. Thus it left me thinking it was unbalanced and needed fixing because I didn’t see a solution or a way to beat what I was facing.

For example I faced a turtle French player on Danube River. The map is easily walled off and hard to get an aggressive atk on vs French because of the Hulk control of water in Feudal and Knight power vs English. I kept throwing siege into his walls and losing them getting snipped by his cannons and springs. When I stopped attacking and focused on secondary win cons I forced him to attack me and then the shoe was on the other foot as English turtle is just as strong as the French.

The problem is people not knowing what to do and giving up because no one is showing them the solution to enjoy the game. A game isn’t fun when you don’t know what to do. When you do and fail then its on you and you can’t blame anyone else.

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That is just a casual player’s dilemma.
You will see all kinds of interesting and weird things there.

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is it school or game? some want to play, and not to be top10 in the world, but

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Whether its StarCraft, AOE, or Warcraft. If you want to be a better player on a ladder you have to learn to play better. No different than FPS games. There are those with 40 kills a map and those with 10.

Every game has a different strat and mechanics that can be used.

Ideally we want a perfectly balanced game. To actually code that and make it work haha I don’t see any of us making games and selling them to millions of people.

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China is underpowered. The next patch buffs will put them back on S tier thou

Game is totally out of wack with siege still. Lots of issues

Still missing normal RTS things like map blacklist and color picker etc.
such a shame to see this game die

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Mongol TC does not cost stone.

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Even better. See I don’t even play Mongol. So matching a TC should be that much more easy with added aggression to boot.

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At the pro level anyone can win with any civ.

Doesn’t mean balance is good.

So um, I know what you’re saying. But it’s not totally correct. Balance isn’t something that you can decide from winrates alone.

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Agreed. At the pro level the players are still making a ton of map mistakes and civ mistakes. At least from my understanding of the game from an English perspective and what I know playing vs the other civs. So until everyone starts playing GTO (poker term for game theory optimal) its almost impossible to know if a balance is needed or not.

What was certain is that water maps are WAAAAAYYYYYY beyond the skill cap of all the players in the pool on top of just being incredibly taxing to play optimally. Micro and macro on two fronts is just getting robot ridiculous in order to pull off. Even the current water maps put a players skills to brink when utilized fully.

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China does have a great win rate in N4C, but it’s based on a recent buff and the lowest pick rate apart from Delhi who has the highest ban rate. Mongol does have the lowest win rate, but it’s nerfed just several days ago.
AOE4 may not dying, but the fact is that there’re so many things prove that it’s not finished. Players can’t choose their colour, have no map editor, still facing bugs, etc.
Also, the game is really not balance. It’s not only a win rate problem. For example, some landmarks are almost completely useless. Also, ships are still far more powerful than army on land.

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Some God powers in Age of Mythology were useless.

Map editor seems like a small issue when players haven’t even mastered the rotation of current map seeds that came out with the game.

I forget how Mongol were really nerfed. Not getting a ton more stone doesn’t seem like a nerf when it provides a free army at 2x production.

And a buff on the Chinese was small. They were able to do the same things before they were nerfed and then buffed.

Once again people put too much truth behind what a nerf or buff update does than actually playing the civ and adjusting strats.

Whether buffed or nerfed China can still utilize the same build I faced to shut down my ram rush on maps that can be walled. Not sure on what I would do vs English as Chinese on smaller maps other than fight in Feudal and look to go Chu’s defensively and get to castle for Bee’s. The same way I would defensively go spear longbow vs French and look to castle behind it. As the French player has to invest more in Feudal if they want to break defense’s. Plus if they have a poor gold spawn you can still put a lot of pressure on French as English, it just is not a guarantee.

I don’t play vs Delhi that often to be honest. I know as English I would look for early Feudal Age and pressure to kill scholars and set up base at a middle sacred site for a rally and switch between stopping the second site from getting up and raiding the main base in Feudal. From there its about finding a window to advance to Castle with a keep at the center sacred site.

I agree the bugs are annoying.

Nerfs and buffs do switch a players mentality for playing a civ. However they’re not always as all encompassing as they lead players to believe. Mongols still have strong raiding potential in Feudal that has to be respected up into other ages in my opinion. They get free stone for keep production in Castle. Can get out a serious army in Feudal and give English a run for their money. Not sure how to play the trade landmark in Feudal other than playing it the same as English farms.

What I do find is people try to spam trade out of it. I don’t build 20 farms at a time trying to set up food eco. Its slowly added into the build as I expand.

So finding something to do with the excess gold trickle should be taken into account with a build.

Once again people get “told” something and take it as truth and fact without thinking outside of the box. Mainly because I think they don’t main a civ and adapt other civ builds into their own.

Also Keeps make quick work of ships. To the point on Nagari I question even going for the middle water and just setting up towers on the hill with cannon upgrades. (if they fit)

I’m full aware ship are more powerful than land playing english. Many civs completely stonewall the civ on water until the Castle Age.

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I agree, I add the following data to the aforementioned: 87% of players do not exceed 1200 of the elo which I consider is the minimum to give unbiased and objective criticism of the game, but instead, the first thing they do is play 4v4 and 3v3, lose and complain that nothing is worth.
With this we do not mean that the game is already perfect, we all want the best balance, but it is done with objective and very well thought-out criticism.

elo
elo1030×718 74.1 KB

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I’m still enjoying the game so far balance more get better and better. AOE4 has a clear Roadmap and the right path at the moment.

has anyone researched how many players are in the game pass? try to combine both steam and game pass. for steam alone: 12K at the weekend, and 7K on weekdays, both are not small numbers for the RTS genre. it has a niche and dedicated player base at the moment in my opinion.

at the moment AOE4 player based are many from a new player or player from other RTS genres, this indicates by AGE2/AGE3 players are not dropping. it could be true, or maybe false without proper data and analysis. :slight_smile:

thanks you for posting positive vibe @UrbanVolcano524

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haha I’m below 1200 elo.

I feel my opinions are objective. This said I feel I think at a higher elo level while also my skill is very close to 1200+ if not more. Its been a long time since I played RTS and I’m still getting the muscle memory up for macro and micro. Lately I’ve been doing aight. Vs the pro’s I’d likely get squashed with small mechanics. I suppose time will tell.

I would imagine this graph is pretty accurate though. I don’t think a large percent of players watch strategy. This I feel is more the problem than anything. Retention value for AOE which can be solved with better ability to get information in front of new and struggling players. So links in the actual game menu to streamers and youtube instead of chat blocking it and killing any ability for a struggling player to learn.

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If the game itself is solid enough, it gains a wider audience, which naturally leads to more discussion and more content creators, which naturally show people what to do and how to enjoy the game, which naturally leads to more positive comments and even wider audience.
Simple as it is.

It’s not the other way round. If the success of games has to depend on enforcing or faking positive comments, or expect one or two super helpful and enthusiastic and omnipotent prophets to suddenly spawn from the player community who also paid for the game, then the gaming industry should have declined 10 years ago.

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