Strelets, Not dealing well vs what they counter?

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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You use your game as a prove, i told you your level is not good enouth to be considered like a prove. You loose this game at min 8 imo and the swe guy throwing like a big boss when he delate his whole army under your fort (your tc was free, nor amry and nothing to protect it).

Also, your arg is wrong, because strelet struggle at countering caro doesn’t mean they are bad against HI in overall, we knows how good caro are, and not representative about what HI is. I can show you many game where a big russian rush beat india



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That is the main reason of this topic And this is why I made the post or else it would stay like that until someone else does

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The title of this topic is “strelet not dealing well vs what they counter?”. If you talk specificly against caro, you should say it, that’s not the case.

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Have you ever seen strelet doing well against a good spam of Eagle runners? There are a few aztec players who have done it and as russia you just have no answer to it… What is the answer if you have it? Aztec vs russia is known to be aztec favored but to the point that russia can’t really try to outplay as there is no tools?

Or war wagons + Skirms? If you try to play aggro you get kited down without a chance of making a play? Germany vs Russia is known to be Germany favored but to a point that leaves russia without tools to fight later on

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If aztek manage to mass eagle against russia, aztek decerve the win ^^. Against german, maybe it’s hard but not impossible (maybe very hard now with the uhlan buff), because you are suppose to spam strelet + cosaque and cosaque snare where WW have the worst kiting animation of all time.

Open this topic on esoc if you want the opinon of very top players.

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So much for a balance. LOL

Truly speaking, Both civs well played. Germany is so much favored it is like 90% germany 10% russia at chances of wining

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Russian winrate pr 28+ based on EP elo (2017-2020)
winrate

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Russia is struggling very hard to win vs swedes. Chances are non existant.

Early push into town center + tower + caroleans + leather canons is impossible. and if to that you add some walls. Hello Fortress age.

Then we get Fortress age and There is just nothing russia has to go out on the map to take resources or take proper fights as caroleans + 2 falconets early fortress is very strong and have good mobility

Then have to play from base with walls + canons / probably Forts while Swedes takes entire map

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If buffing strelet range will make them too OP as people do say [ I don’t feel it will as Russia is struggling in Most matchups right now ]

Then give Russia Weaker skirms trainable in Fortress. Just like halbs. Allow russia to train skirm with the respective stat decrease like the musks and allow the cards that buff strelet to buff their skirms. Should fix the problem.

I’m pretty sure that Russia with skirms becomes a much more stable civ

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I don’t think russia struggle that much against HI. They have good mu against strong mousket civ (like brit).

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Against Brits. is the only good matchup of Russia as brit doesn’t age up that fast. But usually those brit players who age up and play from fortress. Give harder times to russia. Out of 15 civs only 1 Matchup and barely can make it.

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Russia is great vs iro. It’s supper hard for iro to deal with strelet / cosaque

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ce pelo menos eles almemtacem a o nivel de alcance era melhor pro russos strelet ocupa 10 de populaçao e muito fraco os desenvolvedores deveriam almetar o nivel de aalcance e oe custo

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This thread in reallity is just about you really really wanting to play full turtle skirm+walls with every civ in every matchup and strelets dont allows for that. Isnt it? you are literally the only person ever to say that strelets arent good… they just arent good at strelet+wall. Just play normal and russia is excelent vs heavy inf.

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This thread is about strelets not dealing well vs what they counter. What is that you’re supposed to do vs Caroelans, Eagle Runners, War wagons, Howdawh, 18 range dragoons . These are Ranged Cav and russia has no proper answer to them. Or please show me where is the answer. Because all civs do have answer to these. Russia being only one without a proper answer

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strelets are a meatshield, they are supossed to be somewhat cost efective while massing, 1 baseline strelet has 72 hitpoints, 8 ranged damage, 14 range, firerate of 3 and x2 multipliers against heavy infantry.
a carolean has 150 hp, 19 ranged attack, range 10, 2.5s rate, 1.5x multipliers against light infantry.
1 vs 1 it takes 10 shots in 27 seconds to kill a carolean
the carolean takes 3 shots in 5 seconds to kill a strelet
10 strelets combined one shot kill a single carolean, they take 3 seconds to kill 2 caroleans, 6s to kill 3, 9s to 4, 12s to 5, 15s to kill 6.
3 caroleans one shot kill 1 strelet, they kill 2 in 2.5 seconds and 3 in 5 seconds
6 caroleans could kill 2 one shooting, 4 in 2.5s, 6 in 5 seconds.
in a battle the fact of just killing one strelet out of each pack of ten implies they need another shot, or another 3 seconds to kill one carolean.

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i just tested strelets upgrades.
imperial strelets get 162HP, 18 damage, 16 range.
arsenal gives them 3x multiplier against heavy infantry
advanced arsenal card technologies 171HP and 19 ranged damage.

using the 4 upgrade cards (team Cavalry scouts +10%HP, boyars +15%HP and attack, strelet combat +20%HP and attack, strelet horde +10%HP.)

the fully mastered imperial strelet has:
211HP 23 Ranged damage 16 range x3 multipliers against heavy infantry
seems just good, at the cost of 5 card shipments and technology upgrades, but this is not easy to achieve, in contrast skirmishers, musketeers and caroleans buff beyond imagination in late game.
they fall far behind other units forcing you to use musketeers or other units.
also strelets loose their initial mass advantage because of the population cost, they can not compete in same number.

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This is why I suggest giving them 20 range to compete for the same POP.
Or giving Half cost pop strelets at 18 range makes them be able to compete against anything and be effective as they say.

Personally I think for russia to be a better civ it requires is weaker army to also cost half pop Strelet/musk/halb. Just like cossack does. Cossack is an OK unit. Not too strong, not too OP it is weak and easy to kill. Same happens to strelet and musk. Weak and easy to kill but it gets too bad when you have to face same number of army in the other side [ Which is much more stronger than yours ] with a weaker one.

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i believe they are made this way so they are mostly inviable, forcing you to use musketeers which could get to imperial status in late game, but being 20% weaker, and only being able to upgrade 10% more HP and attack.
and the suvorov reforms that transforms all strelets to musketeers, but it is a single use boost card. i dont know if there is someone using this card.

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In my honest opinion, I think Russia fights just fine right now by using other units and spam to cover up weaknesses. If strets do somehow get 20 range or half pop, that’d just be even better. I feel like Russia would definitely crawl towards being a better civ to fight face-to-face with, without having to change that much from the civ.

If I see mass infantry, I honestly don’t even think about making 50 strelet to overwhelm them or compete. It just won’t happen. First thing I do is go to my artillery range and load up horse cannons. I know because plenty of times I’ve maxed out my strelets’ stats, and put them against mass skrims and musks, and I find myself draining because I have to constantly train more strelets to sustain any kind of numerical advantage (which never works). Only if strelets outnumber 1.5-2x the number, you’ll win. And half of them sit there because of crappy range.

The DPS won’t be fast enough to kill other civ’s strong units, so I just compensate with a crap ton of cannons and stack some anti-cav (halberds and cav archers are GREAT). The cannons definitely make up for DPS, and they keep strelets in the fight (if you kill their units quickly, their total DPS drops and your strelets survive longer).

I’ve fought a decent/good French player in FFA, with fully upgraded France, and as tough as it was, I could manage due to keeping my artillery in check and keeping his down. He had to drop his score spamming gendarmes once in a while to make a push against strelets, halberds, horse cannon, and cav archers, but he eventually wore his economy out.

And if I see myself in a mass strelet versus mass skirm battle, I don’t hesitate either and make cossack, even like 10. It takes a skirm (33 ranged atk) like, 22 shots to kill 1 cossack (570 HP, 0.30 ranged resist), so I always sprinkle cossacks to tank for my strelets. And if they have goons, I make my strelets fire upon the goons and sprinkle cav archers and halberds. The enemy usually don’t know how to react with so much variety.

Surprising, I’ve found halberdiers to be a great tank for strelets against goons. Although they have no ranged resistance, they have 340 HP for a good cost (probably one of the most efficient HP per resource units you can get for Russians, after strelets).

If a goon has 52 ranged attack, it takes 7 shots to kill a Russian halberdier.
Compare to 6 shots to kill a 300HP musk, and 6 shots to kill a strelet with their low HP and ranged resist. (And goons make 109 damage on cossacks, and the full 156 on cav archers, so don’t even bother thinking about using cav as tanks.)

Goons run away from strelet and try to kite, but if I have 5 horse cannons sitting there and if they have like 30 goons, they always feel bold try to shoot them down with goons. People are really that crazy (or lazy, or know it takes too long to make and move culverins), so they charge into my halberdiers and I get them every time.

I think Russia is fine, but it’s one of those things where if Russia could get a buff for one of its weakest points, it just makes playing Russia that much more enjoyable and more viable.