[Suggestion Balance] Persians gets double hp on TC starting from FEUDAL

The reason is simple, the douche is too strong for low/mid level players. And vills have bonus vs buildings so palaside around your base or farms do nothing.

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You would destroy the whole fame of the Persians if that is done :disappointed:
and that strategy requieres a lot of skill to be succesful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLY2DQaJ9_s&feature=emb_title Look at the video

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The douche wouldn’t be that strong but with the TC bonus (that fortunately works from feudal) they got, they can catch up in vills which shouldn’t be possible if you are to delete your TC and rebuild like half the map further away.

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I doubt that top players (Viper, TaToH or Nili) would support that in the balance discord.

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if the persian douche is so strong, how come it’s so rarely seen?

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I bet being low elo won’t prevent them from typing something like “how to counter Persian douche” on their favourite browser or video service, which will allow them to find out the solution (repair your TC until you can go to feudal age, then let it die and rebuild it)

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Not saying the douche is strong but i think the fact that it’s so rare also adds to it being more effective. There’s a number of different cheese strats so it’s unlikely majority of players will look up every counter to each type of cheese. So when they’re hit by the oddballs like douche they just get nailed.

It really frustrates me to watch my ally try to fight a douche. Simply ignoring any advice i give them and ultimately leading to them resigning…

Would normal tc hp in the dark age really make persians that much weaker in the grander scheme of things?

Korea and inca cheese were knee capped, why can’t persians?

One thing is seeing, one thing is actually being able to do it.

Yeah nerf Persians even more :frowning:

I would rather see the old dark age bonuses restored but penalize the building speed for docks and tcs and voila douche is harder to perform.

But in addition I am no fan of balance changes because of noob niches where it feels OP, because a balance change will affect all, and in the end having a worse game in the top area is not favourable. If pros can deal with douches everybody can with some adaptions

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This strat is kind of a meme strat. No need to a nerf.

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Persian douche is a suicide strat that entirely relies on your opponent doing stupid things, Nerfing douche would be like banning Goths because low elo players don’t know how to counter. If someone can do the build order properly and the opponent starts to panic and throw the game then the douching player deserves the win regardless of the ELO level

In no universe does 10% faster vil production make up for having your whole eco idle for 3 minutes, no protection in your original base, and towers everywhere around your new TC. The douching player will not reach feudal age anyway before min 20 - if he ever manages to reach it - because he has no space or wood to build food eco.

Douche is a meme, a joke. Like going full militia or deciding to not make blacksmith upgrades the whole game. I can’t believe someone in their right mind would actually consider it a “strategy”. If you lose against douche, the opponent could likely beat you with any other strat, while idling eco for the first 3 min, and not making military, because that’s what douching is.

Can you try yourself to douche a player of your Elo and see how it goes ? I bet you’ll not only lose the game, but you’ll not even reach feudal

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Douche needs to be executed very well, otherwise it fucks up your eco so strong that you’ll barely hesitate calling the gg right there

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I haven’t been douched once in all this time 11

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If pros can do it, it is because they are pros.

Try watching some video of high level players, not even needed low level players.

This is like the ‘boar laming requires skill’ argument. Which isn’t true. Already you having to repair your TC to reach feudal and this sets you way back. Then you also have to rebuild your TC while the enemy is enjoying your resources.

High level players are also allowed to go meme. Hoang does 10+ militas at high level and wins sometimes against Viper, doesn’t mean anything about the strategy. He wins because he outplays his opponent not because it was a clever choice of opening. There are many examples of high level players trolling in tournament even with money is on the table because some prefer fame rather than money. Ask top players what they think of douche they will laugh

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You don’t have to repair your TC. If the enemy forces you to repair because it would destroy it exactly when you were going to hit Feudal then he’s already outplaying you by having the right timing, or just by having very good luck. With bad luck it could have been that you scouted the douche coming and immediately denied it, or hit Feudal just a few seconds before he destroys the TC, or whatever. And still, your enemy has to wastes 10 vils to destroy the TC while he’s already massively behind in eco.

@SwaggyOP you can see Viper’s recent video about Persian douche on socotra ranked game. He tried twice in the same game.

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And that was against a fast cutting wood bonus civ. Man it is so op, almost broken. Definitely amplied the effect because it is socotra but still, and Vipah planted it wrong by positioning in a place where even his vills could be hit.

you have no idea what you are saying

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its so overpowered its rarely used in actual tournament play.

so we should start balancing strategies around every single type of map available, even one that has a 3% play rate. and half that at vipers skill level?

no he’s actually got a very good point. unless you’re already going up to feudal you’re better off letting that tc die, saving your wood and building somewhere new. repairing no matter what is a waste of resources and villager labor at a time when you’re already low on both.

again, if you want to say something is overpowered, i’m gonna need to ask you to show us statistics.
in how many games is the Persian douche actually used?
in how many tournament games is the Persian douche actually used?
what is the success rate of the Persian douche?
is the Persian douche actually putting the player ahead just by performing a douche?

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