[Suggestion–rework] Natives or minor factions

Prologue:

Below I will present a compilation of proposals related to the natives, minor factions or whatever you want to call it. Some proposals made by me, others made by other people, and others in which we probably converge.

The goal is to improve the viability of using natives in general, regardless of whether some civilizations like the Africans and Inca civilizations for example already benefit from alliances better than average.


Let’s start with the most basic:

TP in native settlements:

Native settlements cost 200 wood by default, and it’s too high an investment for the cost/benefit ratio to be worth it in the short term. That is why I will propose the following:

A passive bonus similar to the Asian Consulate: Now all the minor factions you are allied with will give you a passive bonus, which means you will have an immediate buff once you build the TP, in case the enemy destroys it, this buff is gone. For example:

  • Alliance with Cheyenne: Gathering per hunt is increased by 5%.

  • Alliance with the Comanches: Cavalry and shock infantry are 5% cheaper.

  • Alliance with the Caribs: Fishing harvest increases by 5% and fishing boats move faster.

(Just to give some examples)

In this way, an investment that helps you progress is justified, with an inherent quality of the ally.

Income of passive resources: Trading Posts now generate a passive income from some resource depending on the civilization. For example:

  • Asians: Native TPs generate a slight export trickle.

  • Europeans, Pre-Columbian and post-colonial Americans: They receive a slight trickle of experience

For civs that have the plaza as a “how much resource”, instead of gaining experience, native allies give a slight bonus to plaza work. (As if they participated in the politics of said civilization). I read it once and it seemed like a good idea, but I don’t know how much impact it could have on the balance.

African civilizations already generate influence on native and route TPs, so there is no need to emphasize them.


Equitable Alliances:

What do I mean by this? Well, most civs can buff native allies much more than others due to having an arsenal available. For example the Aztecs and the Incas cannot.

  • For civilizations that do not have access to the arsenal, in case of allying with minor facsions it would be good that in those places exclusively for facsions without arsenal, there are 3 improvements available:
  1. In case of being gunpowder cavalry, add the upgrade ‘cavalry snail’
  2. In case they are skirmishers add ‘anti-infantry rifles’
  3. In case they are musketeers add ‘socket bayonet’

This would make native allies more useful for civilizations that lack these technologies. For example, when the Aztecs take the alliance with the Jesuits and cannot improve the reach of the conquerors because they do not have arsenal. This would be more useful to the natives for civilizations without gunpowder and at the same time it would give more balance in the game and usefulness to the natives.

Examples:
Alliance of Aztecs with Jesuits.

Another example would be an alliance of Aztecs with the Cree where they have access of anti-infantry rifles.

This will greatly improve the natives for civilizations without access to the arsenal. It would even seem fair to me that the upgrades ‘flintlock rifle’ and ‘paper cartridges’ were also available in these native villages. (If the ally is a skirmisher or musketeer, of course) All of these upgrades are unlocked at age IV for them.

Plot: Well, in this case we can imagine that these minor factions have their own arms race and their own contacts.

In case of a hypothetical alliance between Aztecs and Comanches or Mapuches, their respective cavalries will increase one point of reach for each age they advance (age III: +1 reach. Age IV + 1 reach =+2 Total + 14 reach). Arsenal upgrades for them would be pointless since they don’t use gunpowder.


Native Values:

Most of the natives cost wood and food, but in the long run wood is scarce and they lose viability. That’s why I think that the natives that should cost wood are those that use more primitive weapons, while those that use firearms or metal weapons such as spears or swords cost food + coins.

For example:

  • Cherokees should cost coins due to the fact that they use a rifle.

  • Tupi can cost wood because they use a bow and arrows.

Cavalry units like Comanches and Cheyennes could also cost coins.

There would still be plenty of units left that would cost wood and food, but I think this is good for variety.


Skirmish-type natives with more range:

Skirmish units like Cherokees and Cree should gain a range point as age 3 and age 4 buffs are applied. These units have a range of 16, so could potentially have a range of 18. (+ 1 of age range III + 1 of age range 4. = +2 /Total 18). They would be 2 rank points below the European skirmish average.

I know that the Cree natives have been readjusted so that the United States does not have too strong use of this unit, but I think that if the range is gradually improved there will be no problems.


Native allies from the metropolis:

All civilizations should be able to have native shipments from age II, and infinite natives at age IV. There are civilizations that have several ‘native infinite’ type cards. It would be fair that the civilizations that lack that have at least one card of this style.

Germans and Ottomans would improve their NR game with just one of these cards.


Improvements to some native related cards:

Many cards that in principle should improve alliances with natives are practically useless, so I propose the following improvements:

Improvements of some cards related to natives:

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Native Lore: On top of the current buffs, adds a passive experience income of X.XX/s for the rest of the game.

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Native Treaties: In addition to its current benefits, it gives you a cart that can build a native embassy. Embassies give more experience when building them.
Note: In case you haven’t already allied with a tribe before this card arrives, it will give you the corresponding warriors once you build the trading post the first time you actually build the trading post.

image
Blood Brothers: In addition to the current benefits, the natives from the metropolis arrive faster and are also able to enable some of their improvements in your native embassy.
Note: In this case we will have to enable native cards as a shipment from the metropolis to civilizations that do not yet have them. We could also enable this card for civilizations that do not have it.

Improvements of some cards related to natives (Asians):

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Native Learning: On top of the current buffs, adds a passive experience income of X.XX/s for the rest of the game.

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Native Alliance: In addition to its current benefits, it gives you a cart that can build a native embassy. Embassies give more experience when building them.

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Native Crafts: In addition to the current buffs, add an export X.XX trickle for each native village you control.

Note: They would vary by civilization depending on how strong they can be, because for example the US has some of these cards and the improvements suggested here could make them very strong, but remember that these are general proposals.


The natives influence the markets:

I have always thought that both route TPs and native TPs should have some interaction with the rates that are handled in the markets. There are some interesting mechanics that I propose in this regard. (interesting for me at least. XD)

Explained here: Rework to the markets


Native embassies could generate resources:

Embassies are limited like bars/taverns/churches and monasteries. They might have a passive income from some not very significant resource, and there would be another reason to build native embassies.

I propose that they generate various types of resources at the same time as the ‘sanctuary laws’ card but weaker. This will simulate a commercial exchange. It could vary according to civilization. For example:

Europeans and post-colonial Americans:

  • Meal/s: 0.10
  • Wood/s: 0.10
  • Coins/s: 0.10
  • Experience /s: 0.5

3 embassies would match the ‘sanctuary laws’ card
(these are just statistics as examples)

Asians:

  • The same, but instead of experience and coins, obtain export.

Africans:

  • Same thing, but instead of experience and coins, obtain influence.

Although with its role of just being a building to create units it is fine, I propose it to see what you think. It’s not my idea, but it seemed interesting to me when I read it.

The first trading post should grant an embassy: A free native embassy once the trading post is built. I think that in the ‘napoleonic era’ mod this mechanic was implemented. First Native Trade Post Should Ship An Embassy Wagon


Upgrade each minor faction separately:

Especially the minor Asian and American factions. They are mostly very unviable and even almost obsolete. For this reason, each must be reviewed separately.

Minor African factions are fine, but not many civs have viable options to make an alliance worthwhile. So you also have to give a little more versatility to civilizations that do not specialize in alliances with natives, but can still do it in a better way.I think that with everything suggested above it would be enough to justify an alliance.

In this forum… ([Minor Natives topic] Post here your ideas for every single minor natives so the devs can look at) there are many proposals to improve each native separately, but since it is not usual to implement more than 5 improvements for each minor faction, many of these could become passive bonuses.


That’s it. The minor factions need an update and are crying out for it. I hope this is on the developers’ schedule. Thanks for reading and give me your opinions.

10 Likes

Another possible approach would be to have an additional tech available to civs without Arsenals. Something like a second version of the following cards:

image Legendary Native Warriors
image Exalted Natives

Only Inca, Aztec, China, and India are actually affected by this since everyone else has access to Arsenal techs in some way. Inca and Aztec could have it in the Kallanka and Nobles Hut while China and India could get it through the French Consulate.

9 Likes

A suggestion I received in the cattle raising forum:

“I think llamas should be available to anyone who makes an alliance with the quechuas or mapuches, and replace spanish llamas with cows.” @ThreeCeiling76


A visual rework for the native embassies according to the region. Just like with the TP. Two buildings that could use visual rework. A pet peeve of mine. (Mosque, Native embassy)


In team games native embassies may enable native village upgrades that are controlled by another player on the same team.

Technologies of Allied Minor Civs
NEW: The Embassy would have access to all technologies of TPs controlled by teammates.

  • This would remove the need to share the TPs between teammates, as well as add more flexibility and uses for both TPs and Embassies.

(bonus: this would remove the annoying You just want to steal my Natives!!! players…)

[Suggestion] Native Embassy: Reworking them to be more useful

1 Like

After all Spain almost never uses that card that allows to make llamas.

5 Likes

Another idea that I missed is that all native TPs could give you the ability to create 5 additional workers like the Cree or the Berbers. Credit to @Konahrik1140

4 Likes

Damage from projectiles with poison for Caribs and Tupis. Also a bit more speed for melee warriors like Zapotec Lightning Warrior and Nootka Thrasher.


5 Likes

Now that we have Native Americans, Native Asians, Native Africans, and “Native Europeans,” I think the initial bonus some civs have of being able to see trading post locations for playing “home” at the start of the game needs to be reworked a bit. It does not make sense that for example the Incas or the Aztecs know the location of the royal houses as soon as the game begins, while the Europeans must explore the entire map. That is why I propose the following:

Pre-Columbian civilizations and post-colonial civilizations can see Native American settlements.

Asian civilizations can see the native Asians.

Africans can actually see native African settlements.

Europeans can see the location of the royal houses.


Also the native TP could have the ability to “train” the ‘native embassy’ bagons. This would remove the need for villagers to build embassies (although they still could).

9 Likes

Now that there are also royal houses in the game, it seemed to me that there should also be a benefit for civilizations like Aztecs and Incas without an arsenal.

The proposal I made earlier (Equitable Alliances) about some available armory upgrades would fall short in some cases due to limited slots by the big button and available upgrades, so in this case it would be best to enable an armory cart with some upgrades. Generally it would be the same as what I proposed, but now there are melee cavalry and melee infantry units like halberdiers, so if the case arises, the armory will have these technologies available:

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Infantry cuirass

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Cuirassier horseman

Example:
Captura de pantalla (18)
Of course, it would only upgrade the units available in the royal house and not the Inca units (in this case) themselves.

1 Like

I’d personally not enjoy such a bonus…
european assets have been given away to nearly all D.E. civs (except Sweden) and it might be stacked: native civilizations already have War Dance and unique cards/big buttons.

1 Like

This proposal is more focused for the treaty, so these improvements would be available after the fourth age. I don’t know how much it affects the balance though. In general, civilizations like the Aztecs and Incas are at a disadvantage in the treaties, but I don’t know if this would help them level up or would push them out of line.

I’d split South America, Mexico/Central America and Asia into more maps, partly to justify adding more minor civs (since FE said they want minor civs that can be used in multiple maps) and partly to add more maps where Mayas and Zapotecs (who shouldn’t be in South America) would fit.

2 Likes

This card requires a slight additional buff to be more viable. It doesn’t make sense for it to be altered just because it’s OP in a specific case with a real house. (I think this is why it was changed, since that upgrade gives you a bunch of random mercenaries if I’m not mistaken.)

2 Likes

Minor Civilization Rework

An additional mechanic to form alliances with Minor Civilizations has been implemented:

  • Instead of manually placing a Trading Post it is now also possible to convert the settlement’s socket with any unit and slowly build the Trading Post automatically with a click of a button!

  • To convert a socket you can to walk up to a neutral settlement with any unit. Upon conversion you will hear a capture sound and see a flag of your player color placed into the socket:

    • Beware! Moving near a neutral Settlement will change its color on the minimap, alerting a vigilant opponent to a potential raiding parties’ location, so be stealthy!
  • To form an alliance with this minor civilization select the converted socket and click the new build button in the top left:

  • Forming an alliance through this mechanic does not require a builder unit and costs 100 food and 100 wood. Upon clicking the button the Trading Post will be slowly built.

  • It is still possible to manually place and build a Trading Posts for 200 wood in the same socket. The construction time will also be notably shorter this way!

  • A neutral Settlement with a converted socket will now provide some Line of Sight of the surrounding area (a bit like the Stagecoach) as long as you are in control. Building a Trading Post improves this bonus further and grants a trickle of 0.35 XP per second, and access to additional units and technologies as usual.

  • As long as the construction of a Trading Post has not been started, other players can still convert sockets back with any of their own units, or manually build Trading Posts in the socket.


It looks like this feature is finally starting to get some more attention. But I have some questions:

It seems that all native TPs give an experience income (0.35 XP per second), but I saw that this does not happen with royal houses, is this deliberate? Maybe it’s because the royal house already provides a passive ability.

What happens in the case of African civilizations? In addition to influence, do you also get experience, or just influence?

3 Likes

I think there are Native-related cards that should change their name and appearance as a result of the original cards being designed for alliances with Native Americans and not Natives in general. For example the card ‘native knowledge’ should be called something like ‘local wisdom’ or something like that.

Now that native TP can generate experience, the card ‘native knowledge’ in addition to the current benefits, could also increase the experience rate by XX.XX%. In the case of Royal Houses, it makes passive abilities recharge a bit faster (considering that Royal Houses don’t generate experience).

2 Likes
1 Like

I would love to see the following changes for natives. :slightly_smiling_face:


I would love for all natives to have 5 units.

  1. Melee infantry.
  2. Ranged infantry.
  3. Melee “Cavalry”.
  4. Ranged “Cavalry”.
  5. Villager.

I think native settlements need their own population system. Instead of an arbitrary limit on warriors, we have a native population amount that we can use to recruit any type of unit from the villages.

For example, Let’s say we have a Mapuche settlement.

The settlement could give us 15 indigenous population of the Mapuche, which we could use to recruit 15 Mapuche units of any type, for example 15 Mapuche Ironwood Clubman or 15 Mapuche Bolas Rider.

The greater the number of Mapuche settlements, the more population to train units, with 3 Mapuche settlements we could have 45 Mapuche units that we really need.


PS: I don’t know why, but my previous comment was made as an answer. :laughing:

Tier List – minor factions


(It was not created by me, it was created by high ELO players)

2 Likes

God, the Mapuches need an urgent buff. :scream:


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Mapuche Ad-mapu: Cost 250 wood and 250 coin, effect; All units cost -25%

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Mapuche Tactics: Cost 200 food and 200 wood, effect; infantry get +50% siege attack.

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Mapuche Treaty of Quillin: Cost 500 food and 500 wood, effect; Ships 200 coin and wood for every 1 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes and gives a trickle of 3.00 coins and 3.00 wood.



Mapuche Ironwood Clubman:

Changes.

Hit points: 200
Training limit: 15 per mapuche settlement.
Cost: 100 food and 50 wood
Resistance: 30% vs. Melee.
Melee Damage: 20
Siege Damage: 30
All Rate of Fire: 1.0


image

Changes.

Hit points: 300
Training limit: 10 per mapuche settlement.
Cost: 100 food and 65 wood
Resistance: 30% vs. Ranged.
Ranged and Melee Damage: 20
Siege Damage: 15
All Rate of Fire: 1.5


These are the changes that I would like to see for the Mapuche, but as always this is just my opinion. :smile:

1 Like