Suggestions and discussions on the characteristics of CIV

The recent updates to the two versions have shown us the determination of the production team to strengthen the differences in CIV, which is a very good sign. Of course, it would be even better if differences could be further implemented in the model.

As is well known, there are some long-standing model issues in AOE4, such as Middle Eastern knights using European Lance, East Asian crossbow soldiers using European capstan crossbows, and almost all CIV spearmen using European billhooks.

Whether it’s an excessive emphasis on the ease of use of esports or a traditional setting derived from the AOE2 universal model, it’s undoubtedly outdated and uninteresting. However, it’s nice to see that the production team is shifting their design thinking and starting to refine the differences between various CIVs.

Some potentially useful ideas:

About the City Wall
Generally, CIVs can build stone and wood walls normally.
Mongolia and other nomad cannot build any walls.
RUS can build reinforced wooden walls and can only build stone walls.
Like RUS in history, Japan’s city walls were not mainstream and relied more on mountains and castles for defense. Therefore, Japan could design a special weakened stone wall, which was positioned between the stone wall and the wooden wall, similar to the wall setting in previous works of the AOE series: a shooting hole protective wall where personnel cannot climb, but can shoot outward. This is reflected in the fact that friendly units shooting towards the other side of the wall near the friendly city wall have a gain effect, On the contrary, enemy units shooting through walls will be forced to reduce damage.(with a certain probability of no harm)

About Scouts and Cavalry
In ancient Japan, there was a great lack of excellent horses, so it could be set as a CIV with infantry as the main force. However, unlike HRE, after all, Europe had at least good breeds of horses available, and Japanese horses and cavalry were too weak even in horizontal historical comparison. Therefore, Japanese cavalry could be specialized in certain aspects, but their overall combat power was weaker than ordinary cavalry, while reconnaissance soldiers were suitable for designing as ninjas, As a reconnaissance unit that can be invisible and run at high speeds (not as fast as a horse, of course).

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比如之前有人建議“clan system”,整套就是抄襲中國的朝代系統+Total war Shogun 2+AOE3。選擇藩屬後能有各種經濟、軍事加強。他們不在乎武田的騎兵只是比其他藩屬出色,而不是比同時代的其他文明優秀。


I think you mean my concept (Link:, hehehe, i was recognized.

About the samurai and their magic katana:

Well, about the samurai I agree. There is so much media success of the samurai, that when the first games were created, they were practically given too “powered” abilities with respect to their historical simile.

  • Aoe2: Bonus against ALL unique units in the game (Which are the best existing infantry?)
  • Aoe3: Ronin samurais as mercenaries with humongous HP and area damage (Samurai holy armor?)
  • Aoe3-AD: Samurai with short katana area attack and anti-cavalry flying kicks (They learned it from Bruce Lee, I swear!)

For Aoe4, if they want to stick to the realism thing, or at least samurai troop like katana-wielding infantry, I think they should be the replacement for the Men-at-arm, having bonus attack speed, but less attack (katanas were more weaker than the Chinese Gu Dao and the European sword), and normal Men-at-Arm armor, because they didn’t need a shield since its armor was always the best (they were elite noble soldiers), and possibly the heaviest (which would make them as slow as Men-at-Arm). Since in season 5 there will be the Ghulam that has less attack but more attack speed, there is no problem with the samurai following a similar model. Of course, to differentiate them, instead of a double attack, samurai could have a charge attack " iai" (Read my model for more information).

About necessary replacements, like crossbowmen in the case of the Japanese, to say the least:

On the other hand, summarizing something about my model, and since we are talking about Japanese, at least in the medieval period, the Japanese did not produce crossbowmen. One way to replace them would be with “anti-heavy” infantry (similar to Mali’s concept), which could either have a metal club, or the solution he proposed was to create 2 types of samurai:

  1. The one I already mentioned with Katana, function similar to Men-at-Arm.
  2. Samurai with anti-armor “Yari”, whose function would be similar to that of the Musofadi Warrior, only without Stealth, and with a normal speed of the spearman (1.25).

Thus, both the historical samurai with Yari and the desired samurai with katana are preserved, and the problem of the lack of crossbowmen is solved. About the lack of Trebushet, the solution is in my concept:

  • It’s practically the “Arrow Knight” of the Aztecs from Aoe3, but as a Japanese archer that shoots bo-hiyas, which are arrows attached to a rocket (similar to the Chinese “fire lance”, but arrowed). If you remember the Japanese cannon unit of the AoE-3, its the same weapon.

About Scout and Shock Infantry in new civilizations.-

The ninja could exist, but we would have to consider from now on OTHER civs that work with “Shock Infantry” or 1st age scout infantry. As I’m doing other concepts, I can think of a few:

  • Spaniards: “Almogávar”, light shock and scout infantry, which has an “anti-heavy” bonus when evolving. Weak against archers and spearmen, horsemen.

  • Japanese: “Ninja”, shock and scout light infantry, which has an “anti-villagers” bonus when evolving. Weak against archers and spearmen, horsemen.

  • Mali: “War explorer”, light cavalry and explorer, that when evolving poses bonus “anti-archers”. Weak against archers and spearmen, horsemen.

  • Aztecs and Mayans: Native Scout", infantry and explorer, can use stealth and runs fast. He doesn’t evolve. Aesthetically, he carries a fan and a stick. He’s practically a spy emissary. Weak against spearmen.

  • Incas: “Chasqui”, infantry and explorer, replaces the Native Scout. He lacks the stealth ability, but can “speed up” for 9 seconds. He has all the Aztec Native scout stats. Weak against spearmen.

If you are wondering why shock infantry are weak against spearmen… because being shock infantry they are very fast and easy to get speared in their runs, they have short range weapons, and they don’t have a shield or long sword to block spears. Only Ninjas and Almogávar are weak against archers, because they are the only ones that are not made of “anti-archers” units, and that “evolve” by age, so they need more than 1 weakness, that happens to them for being light infantry of shock, and not just shock infantry.

About Japanese Cavalry of possible Civ - self-reflection:

Being honest, I originally wanted to make the Umamawari, of my model, as a Japanese unique unit with less stats than the Knight or Lancer, but with some bonuses, similar to Mali’s Sofa. However, since they already had “enough” unique units (7), and on top of that for “balance” reasons, I thought I was overdoing it, and I left it as the replacement of Knight.

However, what the Mongols of season 4 taught us: with 4 unique units and 5 borrowed unique units (9), I’m not very scared anymore, and with the next advancement that the Mongol Lancer’s stats are subtracted, it can’t be that the Umamawari, an elite Japanese cavalryman, have more stats than this. I explain this right now.

As you say, the Japanese “Melee” cavalry of the medieval age probably was the least optimal, or the worse, both in Asia and Europe, if not in the world of that time period:

  • They did not know what the “cavalry charge” was, until the sengoku wars (1500-1600)
  • Their horses were small
  • They did not know that they had to ######## them to make them more docile
  • They were only used by rich soldiers
  • Even when they were only used by rich soldiers, they were unaware of “Barding”, so their horses went “naked” to battle, with straw sandals instead of horseshoes.

That being the case, and following the Sofa and Keshik model, I proceed to fix the unit:

Umamawari: Imperial Japanese heavy cavalry (IV) with charge attack. They have less HP and damage, but great line of sight and the command inspiration ability, which increases the speed of nearby military units and monks.
HP: 250, Atk: 25 Atk(charge):35, Arm: 5/5 Spd: 1.63, Rof: 1.5

  • Command Inspiration: Increases movement speed of infantry, light cavalry, ranged cavalry, monks, and siege weapons by 15%.
  • Horo: Increases the range of the Umamawari’s command inspiration by +1, and gives it +0/+1 armor.

I think that just being able to use heavy melee cavalry in Imperial fixes the balance, they already have the Bushi horse archer as the 4th military unit of Feudal age (the Abbasid is the Camel Archer, the Chinese is the ######### Z h u g e n u ) so they will be fine without the Umamawari until Imperial.

On the other hand the Bajutsu tech, I would change its description to “Improves melee cavalry attack speed”, so there isn’t horrible synergy with the Umamawari’s new ability. Seeing as how the new “English King” works as a general just fine without many active abilities, the same could be done with the Daimyo, who has the command inspiration of the Umamawari, and the command post ability to heal units, similar to the English shop ( the Japanese always depict their famous tents where the daimyo sat). Maybe also add sepuku as a passive bonus, I’m inspired.

About the Takeda, I don’t see any problems at the moment: Their passive bonus only reduces the cost and creation of the cavalry, and their unique technology gives them a real bonus that their light cavalry troops had, which is still weaker in theory than the Sipahi or other powered up light cavalry if fighting 1v1.

About the history of ###an for AoE4:

  • Historically, they have only had 2 large-scale wars in their medieval history against foreigners: “The 2 Mongol invasions of 1280-1300”, which were short-lived because two cyclones ruined the conflict, and the Japanese Invasion of Korea and China of 1592 -1598, in which they lost. In fact, since they lost, it wouldn’t be a good Japanese campaign, it better be the Korean campaign, if Koreans become new civ.

  • That being the case, for the Japanese campaign, 1.- I would relive the huge number of civil conflicts that they had before the Sengoku period (Similar to the English campaign, where you fought English vs. English), or 2.- the Sengoku period itself to prove the clans system.

- About troops of different ages:

  1. – Feudal Age - Kamakura and Heian Shogunate.- Could be that its 4th extra military unit would be the Bushi, a horse archer. It occurred to me that their bonus might be having a heavy armor, because in effect, they were nobles in heavy armor on horseback, their version of a European knight but a horse archer. About his historical effectiveness, it is not known, because at that time, as I already mentioned, the #### only fought against other ##### so it is open to interpretation, and it can change for balance reasons.

  2. – Castle Age.- Here it is curious because it could be considered after the Mongol invasion and the Ashikaga Shogunate, where thanks to the Mongolian saber, they were inspired to create the katana, and then they began to create various types of Yari, which also justifies the samurai with Yari and the samurai with Katana. Since they didn’t have trebushets, they could replace it in the ranged castle attack with the Bo-Hiya archer, which evolves in imperial to Bo-Hiya O-zutsu handcannoner. Other than that, they would lack heavy melee cavalry until Imperial (IV), because historically it was in the Sengoku wars, that they discovered that.

  3. – Imperial Age.- Sengoku Period - Yes or yes. This is not because I want to, but in order for the Japanese to have firearms in Imperial to be justified, they have to enter this period, even if it is a little late (1480-1600). Above other Civs that already do the same, there are the Ottomans, who also represent late periods in the Middle Ages, their 4th age Landmark was built in 1577, so there will be no problem; or the Malians, wich only get firearms when the Portuguese arrived on its shores (1450), or perhaps considering the time after the rule of the Sultanate of Morocco (1599).

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It’s just because Relic is not willing to pay attention to these BUG.
Actually, we don’t need to rely on the same weapons to identify spearmen when they hold some kind of long weapons in the same pose.





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But from the occasional appearance of special spear models, it can be seen that their original intention was to have their own models for spear soldiers like other units. However, for some reason (probably for the convenience of esports), they later changed it to BILLHOOK before release.