Supremacy Balance Changes

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

It doesn’t take much to realize who the top 5 civs are and who the top 5 worst civs are at this point in time.

USA, China, Aztec, Ottomans are way too over tuned right now.

Namely, all of their timings are far too powerful with minimal weaknesses.

Literally removing -50f from their starts will nerf them where they need to be as a start.

Additionally:

Ottomans:

Spahi need to be targeted for a slight nerf.

  • Increase cost of 5 Spahi card to 1,200f, or only allow 4 of them for 1,000f.
  • Reduce Bashibozuk HP down to 160 (from 180)

USA:

Increase unpacking time for:

  • Capital wagon by 10s
  • Meeting House Wagon by 5s
  • Bank wagon by 5s

Aztec:

  • The -50f start should be sufficient.

China:

  • Increase unpacking time for Consulate Wagon by 5s.

I’ve mentioned Malta needing buffs in the past. The simplest way is to offer basic solutions to their main problems.

Malta:

  • Revert 1% XP nerf.
  • Upgrade Age IV Sentinel card to 55% stat increase, +2 range and melee range, and +.25 speed.
  • Upgrade Wall guns to have a +10 range to its aura
  • Upgrade Advanced Commandery to also increase Commandery Stats by 10%
  • Upgrade Auberges Card to also decrease train time of Commandery units by 10%.
  • Decrease cost of German Tongue from 450w → 425w.
  • Upgrade Dignitaries card to also slightly boost Hospitallers in combat: 5% more HP and attack

Italy:

  • Add +50f start
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2

I’d rather just increase the cost or lower the number of spahi you can get in age 3, these units are limited in number, being strong is kind of their thing.

How about giving them order musketeers through some sort of new tongue card?

3

Nah, all of the order units are unique units to each civ. Malta already has a unique halb/pike and musketeer, hence you don’t get those units from any of the Order unit roster.

Cassador = Skirmisher unit unique to Ports
Longbow = Only “Longbow” unit in the game and unique to Brits
Lancer = Anti-inf hand cav unique to Spain
Curaisser = Splash heavy cav unique to France (with a few exceptions)
Oprichnik = Siege cav unique to Russia
Settler Wagon = Glorified villager unique to Germany (with a few exceptions)

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4

I quite agree. The only civs I am seeing at all in my Elo bracket 1v1 ranked lately are 60% Otto players, 30% China players and 10% Russia players. Those are the only civs I ever see anymore and its really boring. I have never seen suck a lack of variety of civs since this game came out. Oh, occasionally I might see British player. It really sucks, it just isn’t fun to constantly play against an Otto Jan rush every game. And it isn’t even a different strategy, it is always just spam Jans age 2 right click tc.

By the way, if you go on freefoodparty.com and look at the games currently being played (without filtering for specific elo ranges) , you can see a lot of Otto mirrors, and a distribution not unlike what I mentioned. This clearly indicates a balance problem. Granted, Otto is the easiest civ to play by far due to free auto spawning villagers. But do you want a game where most everyone just plays Otto? I don’t think so. Personally, I play a variety of civs and always civs I consider to NOT be OP, therefore it is rare that I get a mirror game, although as I said, the variety of civs has really hit rock bottom recently.

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5

something to consider for otto: Great Bombard spawn time. these things are already very good as is, and should be as a unique unit, but they are made in the same speed as a normal hvy cannon. the crux of the “me otto me sit in corner play 1 hand game go 2 hrs spam artillery behind walls (or jans) no micro only z move accross maps” play is the fact even after their very solid pops (which other than sipahi are fine i think at this point" they then get essentially better factories, backed by better culvs, and a bunch of scaled units for no actual increase in cost. This gives them a major advantage vs civs with normal culvs and hvys, and makes civs weak to late game hvy art even moreso. A reduction of spawn time would go along way to fix this (for treaty folks this might be an issue tho) and put them in line with other artillery. It was fine when otto lacked an eco card, unit scaling, and options but its just oppresive now. Also nerf bashibooks cause they just silly, .8 vs cav.

For aztecs instead of -50f id rather see them nerf the 2x send javs, there is 0 reason for this, as well as lose either 5 vills or a shipment of slingers. cant have super mass and eco (what are you ethopia?) imho.

Usa -50f isnt the issue, its the ridiculously strong card that is russian american company on top of the bugged church tech for goons on top of chinese immigrants being aburdly powercreeped ATP. the russian american co should be like 20%f rate and cost 250w, chinese immigrants should cost wood to spawn tp (first one free tho) and fix the church.

ethopia is also extremely busted rush but also their eco but since only 3 people on the planet i feel like really know how absurd ill just wait on that one cause i feel people arent ready yet but abuns under a MM gather faster than SW can on wood with market techs via selling for a long time.

Malta i mostly agree on those changes but sents seem to alwways be torn to 1 pop/2pop ideas so either or would be better.

Honorable mentions: nerf royal musk to 20%MR (pistol ashi with 2x the armor c’mon…) port 10/10 nerfed by 50c for 50f fix inca huaraca los bug and make bolas ranged shock so 2 units at least dont get btfo by cannons, give pavs for italy back 5hp, unnerf forest prowlers a pinch nerf argentina and nerf spanish church costs in age4, rio grande no hvy cannons, make the eygpt revolt flag something not almost the same as otto for QoL and please if possible fix attack move and shift click issues. im sure there is more but thats the low hanging fruit ones i think most could get behind.

oh and ps- dekkan and horn gtfo out of ranked. add in 2 non tp maps in their stead. you really want to hit all this tempo stuff give some maps where macro and micro>shipment order actually matters.

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6

In fact I don’t have any expectation “again” from balance patch, but just say some obvious problem.
Topic is Supremacy so I also talk some in team supremacy, 1v1 player or especially that infinity resource specific player can ignore this reply.

Otto
Abus as the most strong early skirm type in the game, no matter “attack per cost or pop”, is top in age2, only increase 5 gold in the past patch, but nerf these and those other civ units are directly lower their status.

Around 5:30 age3 and 6min something 5 Spahi /2falcs come to you, after you solve 5 Spahi, Otto is age3 and you are still in age 2. What can Russia deal with 5 Spahi at 6 min?

Cav Archer with Akincis card kills vils super effective, it is totally stupid even a noob can just send several CA as a batch to raid your vils, and you have to wall as soon as possible, means Otto are fully controlling your play, and getting more crazier with Flight Archery card in age4.

FI at 9min something after just TC boom, team Spahi and Great Bombards spawn.

Only Otto this civ can have such every age OP timing in the game.

Others are relatively minor balance problem.

  • Aztec

Aztec already got several patches nerf, winrate didn’t drop ANY, if balance team is referring on winrate, this means the direction is totally wrong. As above mentioned 2x 11 Mayan Allies card is one of the main problem (one of other was buffed JPK) in 1v1, but previous patches continuous on nerf unit status ,those totally not affect 1v1 that Aztec relying on army card, but this just makes Aztec is nothing can play in team game and totally suck.

No matter how hard Aztec was nerfed, winrate can not drop.

  • Sweden

Design failure since DE and just trying compensate by patches. Top eco but simple army style, makes 1v1 rarely use but OP in team, army combination can just compensate from teammate, hard to stop them age 4 even hard rush and burn down their TC.
Torps 140w compares to Manor 140w and Shrines 125w. Torps gain more than 1 vil trickle but cost same as Manor, if balance consider Manor should be nerf why Torps not? Shrines are also much weaker than Torps.
imageimageimageimage
0.85 vil/food + 0.33 vil/gold = 1.18 vil workrate trickle. Fair?
While British only has 4 vils card left but Sweden has 4 torps card = 4.72 vils trickle + 40 pop cap + Torp buff?
To burn down Torps, you need to siege 1300 HP with slow animation, raid a vil only several units.

6 speed pikeman
Due to hard to stop Sweden eco and age up, their “high speed” pikes create much faster than German, cheap and fast they just go around and burn down building, raid vils, wall and outpost something become useless. musk and skirm can’t catch, only goon can HR but you need to keep on microing but pikes don’t need any micro. Civs like Aztec or Inca have no way to solve.
image

I didn’t say how they are in 1v1 but they just OP in teamgame.

  • Inca

Unit problem is similar as Aztec, and how do they do anti-artillery except melee?

Other civs are relatively ok.

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7

Very biased changeds were proposed here.

8

all nerfs to otto are exclusively bias

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9

Russia and Italy need a buff as well. Russia anti cav is atrocious. They made their mark as a rush civ but even that is subpar now.

Italy needs their resource cards to be re occurring and Pavs need looked at. Way too many cards required to make them work when they just get replaced so quickly.

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10

I used to include Russia in the needing buffs category but they’re doing just fine on the ladder now. They have a lot of bad matchups of course but the focus needs to be on the civs that have almost no good matchups at the moment.

Slight buffs and slight nerfs - always. Too hard breaks the balance every single time.

11

Porutchik too expensive?

12

I don’t like how they slightly buffed Poruchnik in age 2 but nerfed them in all other ages, that route didn’t make sense. But for now Russia is in an alright spot.

USA and Ottos are in the FREELO range while Malta and Italy are in the auto-lose range. Let’s focus on those civs mainly.

13

Between that change for the sentinels and nothing, there is no difference, for the sentinels to be decent they need an increase in hp of almost 100%, with what you propose they will continue to be the same weak and useless musketeer.

14

That’s because the Sentinel is meant to serve a unique purpose in defense. When defending it should be better than all musketeers and when attacking, it should have potential but the weakest when it comes to pop.

The added speed and melee + ranged range would make most hand cav in defense easy to deal with and make cost-effective trades in defense assuming defensive buildings are doing some work as well.

It’s ok to have a civ that doesn’t excel in musketeers. Germany doesn’t have a long-term musketeer either.

15

The idea is not that Malta has the best musketeers in the game, it is a matter that the sentinel continues and will continue to be atrash unit because it has a population of two, they die terribly easy, now, at least in the treaty, they only serve to build forts and towers. The best way to make them profitable is to make them 1 clear pop with the necessary adjustments so that they preserve their essence and concept.

16

NO, They just need to buff wall guns so it isn’t useless, sentinels aren’t pop efficient but they certainly are cost efficient, just like strelets. But unlike russians Malta has other options for heavy infantry, Russia doesn’t have another archer/skirmisher option outside of native settlements.

Maltese have Hospitaller and Pikemen with guard upgrade for pop effective heavy infantry, Maltese are the only civ with Guard Pikemen that are not RG without needing a special age up option or card.

17

Wall Guns should simply be “Defensive Aura now adds +4 range.” Obviously with the church tech that turns it into an offensive aura as well they’d gain the range from enemy outposts and such as well.

17 range Sentinels would be good, even with a super high pop.

18

Stop Nerf, just Buff the up civs!

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19

balance is when my favourite civ gets buffed

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20

Wrong, every time I suggest balance changes it’s for civs that truly need it. And the balance changes are truly small. There’s no other way to do it besides slowly inching towards balance.