Venice had an small territory and didnt have anything distinctive from the current civs that could represent them.
Well the dlc civis were represented by others but here we are right.Dont be surprised if venice gets added they are in multiple campaigns represented by portuguese.
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Yes, but why are you so happy about that??
I dont think it really matters if we as the community are happy or unhappy with current civilization choices.pretty much everybody wanted tibet but we got tatars.
Tibetans would be amazing, but we both know theres a reason we didnt get it (well, at least thats what I imagine).
However, embracing it wont help.
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I really want swiss and venetians, but 3 euro dlcs in a row is too much europe.
Lets have some indian or asian dlc first
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Seems like the Italian civ is so bland that many people have forgotten itâs in the game.
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Yeah⊠Honestly Venetians just dont hsve much to add.
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Still a much better choice than isolated tribal communities.
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I dont think we need any yet so I dont really care.
I think devs should wait on idea of having new European DLC so soon. Iâm on more European civs bandwagon, but i also want more Asian and African civs first, and only after that more European civs.
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Skirmishers were heavily used by the Swiss. Thatâs really the only reason. Almost 30% of their army were skirmishers, Often more.
As for the other benefit, itâs one of two proposals I had. I was confusing them with the Dutch. So thatâs on me.
Were they Javalin throwers?
Not too sure whether my proposal will fly with a lot of people, but I think that with the recent DLCs there are way too many cav civs for the amount of archer civs we have.
I would very much like to see a civ that plays into a skirm/infantry composition, or just generally utilize infantry more, backed up by archers like the Japanese or the Vikings were supposed to.
As recently seen with the Poles and the obuch, it clearly is possible to have it in the current meta, as long as the UU fills a good enough niche. Aside of them, there really arenât a lot of civs that go for such a comp, and the worse part is, Poles are a cavalry civ.
The Swiss historically used such a composition, and it can fit very nicely into aoe2 civ design. Not too sure how to approach bonus balance, but I can imagine the civ being something along the lines of (after taking into consideration the input of previous posters):
Bonuses:
- Military units cost -10% food in feudal, -15% in castle, -20% in imp (food is the slowest resource to gather and getting blacksmith tech and going for skirms and infantry will require way too much of it to be affordable)
- Killing an enemy unit gives you 5 gold (could be less, could be only for military units, to materialize the whole âmercenariesâ concept, also to make post imp units affordable- usually you have the gold unit behind taking little damage, here itâs the other way around)
- Maybe something defensive? The Swiss economy wasnât great AFAIK besides gold (tough to farm properly in the alps), but there already are all the gold bonuses imaginable given to other civs, besides maybe revealing gold spots on the map but thatâs too strong, you instantly know where your enemy is
Unique techs:
- (Name unknown) Military units move 10% faster (the Swiss mercenary military was known for being small in numbers, so it couldnât form large formations, but it enabled them to be much more maneuverable on the battlefield
- (Name unknown) Archery range units +2 attack (could miss arbalester to compensate? if itâs deemed too strong. Arbs would have 12 damage, crossbows would have 11, which is 1 more than an arbalester, but 5 less HP, but the idea is to deal damage behind the infantry and not take as much damage)
Unique units:
- Swiss pikeman (Unique upgrade to the pikemen, similar to Winged hussars, available as a team bonus (âmercenariesâ). And judging by the way they went with the winged hussar, it has to be a bit better than a halb in every way, but I think that could be excused because they will cost less and also have full blacksmith for them, something Poles and Lithuanians donât for hussars. So maybe 8 base damage, 65 HP, rest is same as a halb. Maybe 1 melee or 1 pierce armor? Armor could be too much, especially since itâs a team bonus)
- Landsknecht/Doppelsöldner (Unique unit from the castle- infantry with splash damage by default. Carries around a big sword, Zweihander I assume. Deals 50% of its damage to nearby units. Something along the lines of 60 base food cost (reduced by the discount bonus), 35/40 gold? More gold intensive for historical purposes, but Iâm not too sure what the ratio should be, the devs can figure it out better. But keep in mind the only reason we are seeing obuch is because itâs cheap. All other unique infantry units are too expensive, especially after supplies (which I think should affect them but thatâs for another topic), so make sure to not make it too expensive. Stats something along the lines of 60,80HP 9,12 attack 1/2,2/2 armor, 1 speed! important to have mobility. Same as pikemen)
Team bonus: Swiss pikes tech available instead of halberdier upgrade.
Thoughts on the tech tree:
xbow/arb, elite skirm, thumb ring, no parthian, no heavy CA, no HC? (Battle of Bicocca)
full blacksmith besides last cav armor
no paladin, no bloodlines, no husbandry (horrible stable)
full barracks, unique pike upgrade
siege ram, siege onager, (heavy scorp?) (were known for not using enough siege in battle, no BBC as well, they were slow to adopt gunpowder. Makes them reliant on castles for trebs, and if you have the castles ready, might as well make more landsknechts right 
)
full university besides heated shot, bombard tower? have to have decent at least defensive structures and siege if they canât play cavalry at any stage of the game
decent monastery, redemption +3, otherwise will struggle too much against siege like vikings, but vikings at least get zerks
the rest isnât too relevant i guess
Extra thoughts:
33% faster firing skirms is a nice bonus, but maybe should be saved for a potential another meso civ that will need it more. Also you canât leave a civ without good cav and good archers otherwise you get onedimentional ones like Celts and Goths, and Goths have serviceable knights, Celts can use their siege to melt everything anyway
An option is to have +1/+2 damage for archery range units in castle age/imp, but will probably be way too strong, especially in early castle against knights
If they get husbandry they will have the fastest cav and thatâs not allowed, cumans have that
I tried to work around the limitations of certain bonuses and tech tree restrictions being imposed due to previous civs, but I havenât figured out all the relations, the devs know better
Your composition is supposed to be archers/skirms to take out enemy archers, swiss pikes to kill cavalry and landsknechts/champs to kill infantry or archer balls, if you catch up to them. Will be fun to have an aoe3 doppel-like unit in aoe2. Units are faster to make up for lack of cavalry and being easily countered by siege.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, the swiss pikes unit can and probably should be a team bonus, we rarely see pikes until imp anyway and it can be something nice to have in your arsenal, also could make for some interesting synergies, a lot of civs could benefit- vikings, aztecs, mongols even to have halb siege. And itâs not like TGs arenât played on knight arch all the time anyway, shouldnât change much about balance.
Any suggestions are welcome, Iâm just one person, I canât really come up with an entire civ on my own, but we kinda got somewhere after this thread.
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We can name it âReislĂ€uferâ.
Is it Germans, right?
This may be useful.
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I really love your input. Well though-through.
I believe the strongest argument for a Swiss DLC is the lack of âfunâ infantry civilizations. And the Swiss could fill the gap very well.
Some nit-picking: Landsknechte are not Swiss, quite the opposite. They were the German (more precicely Swabian) direct copy of the Swiss âReislĂ€uferâ. But Doppelsöldner would work IMO.
Another point: I would design it in a way, that the pikemen advantage comes in Castle age rather than in Imp. The Swiss strength fell off to the end of the medivial era, when gunpower took became more prominent. Therefore the Swiss should gain their power-spike earlier than in late Imp.
The wikipedia link is spot on. It basically contains all information needed to understand how the Swiss military should be implemented. Definitly a must-read for all that are interested in a Swiss DLC
Letâs have them in a DLC centered on Swiss + Lorraine and having them defeat Charles the Bold (Philip the Goodâs son) and the Burgundians together in their campaign.
Franks and Teutons would appear of course, that would be the downfall of the Burgundians and the conclusion to The Grand Dukes !
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I like this idea but it should be moved to the uu swiss pikeman to avoid being too op similar to a tatar uu.
For the UT names just use pike square and ReislÀufer.
Why not make this like the vietnamese skirmisher? last upgrade to the spear line but can be trained by allies too.
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Most skirmishers were not javelin throwers. For any civ. Skirmishers in aoe2 are much different than skirms in real life.
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