Give Teuton bracer I understand that they are supposed to have a bad archer range, but Teuton really struggle against CA and having bracer would help their Skirmishers. Also nerf crenelation to +2 and apply it to town centers as a reminder of when Teuton douches were truly feared. My only goal is to allow Teutons to deal with CA I don’t really care how as long it is balanced and if you can find a more interesting solution, I would love to hear it
It’s perfectly fine for them being weak to CAs tbh
9 Likes
I just don’t understand why it is okay some civs to counter others. The player is just being punished unfairly punished playing for playing Teutons. Got destroyed by Mangudai, well you shouldn’t have played celts. Got destroyed by Camel archer, well it is your fault for playing Mongols. There is no skill in having a civ dis/advantages at least in a tournament with a draft system it adds an extra layer of strategy or in team games where another player could deal with the CA.
Teutons are already strong at literally everything else excluding their Archery Range, and even then, you can play Crossbows EARLY Castle age very comfortably as Teutons.
Absolutely against buffing them further, they have so much going for them, cheaper Farms, strong Tower rush, a SICK Imperial Age (even on Arabia).
When Teutons are top 15 ish civ on Arabia, while being like top 5 on Arena, you understand they are in a good spot already.
2 Likes
Just go Knight+Mangonels on Arabia. On closed maps you destroy CA civs.
If you didn’t have civs that were inherently weak to some civs and strong against others, then the game would be no different than playing with Full Tech Tree option mode on. Its completely fine that some civs wreck other civs, the fun comes from playing against the odds and finding a win condition.
5 Likes
Just because unfair games can sometimes be entertaining doesn’t mean unfair games are good
I do understand they have great eco and are strong against other melee based Civs but these issues can be addressed separately. but in games against other archer civs they have an unfair disadvantage. The solution to franks being Op shouldn’t be making them weakier against Camels because that gives camel civs an unfair advantage and does nothing for Non-camel civs.
All I’m saying is that if there isn’t an element of biasness for one civ to win over the other, the game would play out very flat. Like, I don’t know what the solution is here, give Teutons something to counter CA? They have very clear strengths, which come with clear weaknesses as well. Its just how the game plays. You wouldn’t be saying anything if it was other way right, if you got Teutons and your opponent got Goths, would you say that Goths need a tool to counter Teutons?
There is literally no way to gst rid of evety bad matchup without making all the civs very boring
2 Likes
That is also an issue but at least goths due have Handcannons to counter TK.
Personally, I think the bigger issue is Franks, Slavs, Bulgarians, Lithuanians, and Sicilians
Whats wrong with slavs, Bulgarians and lithuanians?
Then give them a more interesting way to counter CA.
yes, it is difficult to balance unique civs but it desirable still possible to do without diluting their identity’s.
Vietnamese, Burmese, Turks, Malians, Goths, Sicilians all have different ways to counter archers are they all balanced no, but fact that Turks lack E-Skirm and burmese lack the second armor upgrade should not meant they just die to archers.
When it comes to unique civs having weakness there are three solutions using burmese as an example
1: Accept that Burmese die to archer civs.
2: Give them the Second archer armor.
3: Buff Howdah and rework manipur calvary so they can better counter archers.
While the third solution isn’t perfect it tries to adress their archer weakness without removing their identity.
they are not at a disadvantage and the disadvantage isn’t unfair, other civs also have matchups they struggle in.
Literally the only thing Teutons miss in early Castle is Husbandry, at the same time:
- Cav Archers are weaker than Crossbow in low numbers and Teutons can go full Crossbow early Castle age
- You very rarely see the “mass Knights vs mass CA” interaction of chasing around the map even by cav civs that have Husbandry.
- Teutons have one of the best booms in the game in Castle age, particularly on Arabia where wood can be harassed/is scarce.
- you are still compensated army-wise for weaker Knights by having more melee armor on Knights, more melee armor on Pikeman (helps do Pike defense a lot), better conversion resistance (helps survive Monk rushes better).
Teutons have tools to counter early CA pressure including Guard towers, Castles, Skirms and late game they have siege like Scorpions and to counter mobility late game as Teutons you are meant to spam Castles and TCs. If pop efficiency is a concern, you can go regular Onager with SE and that’s really good on Arabia maps even tho it takes time to tech into. Their “weakness to CA” really isn’t a weakness as long as you secured enough Stone piles early Imp and thus have enough Castles to solve the mobility aspect.
And even if you were to go pure counter units, in trash vs trash wars, Teutons have acceptable Skirms (with last armor upgrade that helps vs CA) and more than FU Halbs.
Like, stop asking for Teutons buffs, they are 100% fine and literally a lower top tier/upper mid tier civ on basically any game mode.
Solution: create your own tournament where people are allowed to play Byzantines vs Byzantines only. Would be extremely boring hence why you don’t see such tournaments being made, civ advantage & disadvantage is part of the game, nearly every matchup that can be classified as “civ win”, the disadvantaged civ has a window to win the game… For example, Celts vs Mongols, Celts is definitely stronger late Feudal/early Castle/early Imp, if you got to late Imp vs Mongols, you got outplayed and didn’t manage to capitalize on your timings appropriately.
4 Likes
Nothing they but they rely heavily on melee damage making them weak to Teutons with their +2 melee armor
But I forgot that Lithuanians have access to the Leitis.
Right, I agree with you. Let’s give Mayans champions because they cannot counter Huskarls.
While we are at it, let’s also give them SE, since they also struggle vs onagers.
While we are at it, they have problem also against Bombard Cannons, so El Dorado should also give the onagers extra range to offside that too.
Why not give them also redemptions? This way they could compete in monks wars
I really don’t know why Mayans should have so many bad matchups in closed maps, we should buff them
8 Likes
Champions and plumes are too unfair.THS3 do good enough against Huskarl, Plumed archer can easily counter champions who lacks the second armor upgrade they also hold up against Huskarl surprisingly well, they deal 3 can slightly outrun them meaning with enough plumes massed and a good meat shield they can easily win. regarding all of your other example there is a big deference between Recognize that Teuton are unfairly countered by CA with little counterplay and buffing the ■■■■ out Mayans because you pretended they don’t cant handle siege.
Plumes do 2 damage to huskarls and it is widely considered a goths heavily favored matchup. Plumes are also restricted to castle production which heavily limits them against the goth flood
2 Likes
Did you know that Unique Units have Elite upgrades that increase their stats?
5 base +4 from upgrades = 9
+2 from bonus damage = 11.
11- 10 armor = 1 damage. Which goes up to 2 because bonus damage isnt negated by armor.
2 total damage. Not 3.
1 Like