Teuton needs something against CA

Curious I thought that bonus damage was added after the damage was calculated so that you would get the minimum 1Dmg + 2 doesn’t that meant that non elite plume would do 1 damage. I was led to believe that bonus damage is supposed damage is supposed to be unnegatable. and being negated in one situation is just weird

Bonus damagd isnt negated.
Minimum damage is factored after bonus is applied tho.
So its not 1 + bonus damage.

True but functionally does it matter?

If teutons vs good ca civs is unfair then it’s also unfair to play vs teutons if you’re a melee civ like sicilians or bulgarians. Also if your aztecs which otherwise probably don’t have a single bad matchup it’s bad or gurjaras (your infantry counter has problems with high melee armor swordsman). So no it’s not unfair it’s just part of the game. Some civs will counter others.

Also you can always outplay ca civs by being faster to castle age abd then putting up aggression while having more efficient eco behind. And since you have good eco playing skirms is perfectly fine in castle age (even in imp it’s not the worst as you have at least last armor). Btw you don’t need imp here you can play full castle age with forward castles siege and whatnot.

Imo it’s actually a good thing that in some matchups you’re forced to play off meta as this makes the game much more interesting.


Because the game would be boring and every civ had to be even more similiar to achieve a state where every matchup is at every time fair. Maybe you can ask for a mode where all technologies are allowed…then you can go play knights with aztecs.

Teutons have many strengths. The lack of mobility is indeed a weakness but if you take away their weakness you have to nerf them on closed maps somehow.

And what people like you don’t understand is that these matchup are never “impossible” to win. You just have to know the strength and weakness of your civ and your opponents civ and then play accordingly. As you pointed out they only lack bracer so their castle age is due to their eco mostly at least on the same lvl. So try to win the game earlier or get at least ahead of your opponent.

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And post number 97485 that asks to fill holes in civ’s tech tree.

And of course, nerf Crenelation, to decrease diversity, cause why not.

How uninspire people can get, reminds me of “Give Cumans Bracer”, “Give Turks Pikes”, and of course “Give Goths Plate Barding Armor”.

If you bother to open a thread, be innovative, find a solution that doesnt kill the game from the inside, we have enough generic civs. Give their Scorpions damage vs. Archers. Something new. Just please accept the current diversed state of the game.

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Why would they need scorpions that do bonus against archers? I think they are fine, they are slow and stuff, but they can always drop Crenellation Castles at key points if they are that worried about enemies running around everywhere.

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Teutons need to have some weaknesses by design, and vs cavalry archers is a good one because other matchups go heavily in favour if Teutons.

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Don’t Teutons have fully upgraded paladins? what else do you need?
Compare that to may be Dravidian they dont have answer to anything fast as all of their units are so slow and lack all cav techs all you need to do is keep raiding them.

Nerfing Crenelations is necessary otherwise they would have 14 range

  • I am also in favor of every civ having strengths and weaknesses. If you don’t want that, play only as a miror civ. When 2 different civ matches up, one will ALWAYS be favored
  • Teuton skirmishers are already countering CA very well. You heavily underestimate them.
  • I am not interested in the crenelation change either
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  1. Lean into defensive home structure so that the enemy can’t just raid with their cavalry archers and will be forced to use them vs your main army or nearly not at all; This creates the feeling that the opponent is now playing on a closed map.

  2. Focus on Siege Onagers and anything else needed based on enemy composition. Create areas, small gated enclosures, or somewhat large if needed, for your Siege Onagers to hide from melee type units when needed and so they can be brought out at any time with less risk of being wasted by a sniping party.

  3. Consider Bombard Canons; they work well vs even Briton foot archers if used at the same time as a forward charging party.

  4. For both Siege Onagers and Bombard Canons, consider binding each one individually to a separate key and, particularly against cav archers, have them attack in just enough of a quick succession that there is little if any down time for them to pause and attempt to snipe your Onagers - use this same method vs mangudai and make sure to spread out the shots to all corners and centers of the enemy formation.

Lastly I agree that it would be nice to see the return of the teuton town center bonus, but at some point in castle age, and no to nerfing the imperial tech.
The return of the bonus would come at the same time of increasing the attack of Lithuanian town centers on top of their increased range so that having similar range teuton town centers will still be ‘weaker’ as it wouldn’t be a special tech specifically, unless it were added on top of the current castle age unique tech.

For instance, Lithuanians and Teutons would both gain range from their techs, but the main difference is that Lithuanians would gain a further + 2 attack to their town centers, and Teutons would instead have increased armor as is on their siege weapons.

+3 range on both Teuton and Lithuanian Town Centers is acceptable.

The only other change I would find lovely would be the addition of the crusader knight to replace the knight line in both the Sicilian and Teuton knight lines at some point with some key points, perhaps it removing paladin and simply replacing the cavalier upgrade or some other method like it simply being an additional unit starting in imperial age.

If you want to have the full glory of the old Teuton Death Stars, add it fully alongside the castle range in imperial age, but arguably by then it would be ‘useless’ but it would still very well pay homage to the old identity which only exists via the castle range and a similar new tech with the Lithuanians which is balanced yet weak and needs a buff - this provides the perfect opportunity to give the Teutons a balanced version of their old tech and buff the lithuanians’ weak version.

The lack of Husbandry hurts a lot that extra melee armor.

Its a roughly 50% increase jn number of arrows to kill a huskarl, so yes.

No, I’m not pretending anything. Mayans are bad on closed maps and ghe huskarl counters by himself every single Mayans’ unit.

I do not want to buff them, I tried to show you that every single civ has bad matchups and that every single civ has bad settings

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I think people overvalue the importance of matchups. Even the very worst matchups are like what, 35-65? and there’s only a few of those (btw. Mayans vs Goths is not one of them afaik). Of course that’s not perfect, but it also is far from being without chances for one side.

Teutons vs CA is also just a soft counter. Yes, it’s good to go CA vs Teutons, but it’s not an auto win. Teutons can defend with some siege and outboom. Can put pressure with Siege, Monks and some Knights, so the enemy is forced to defend and can’t harrass as much as he wants. Lategame Halbs and Siege still works fine.
What you can’t do is just mass Knights/Paladins and A-Move, but imo it’s fine if you need to be a bit more creative than that in some matchups.


Since Teutons lack mobility, you need to force fights. If you attack certain points of your opponent’s base, at some point he can’t run away from thefight - and if he does, his economy will greatly suffer. Teutons destroy nearly everything with their tanky units but the key is forcing fights, instead of leaving the initiative with a more mobile opponent


I tend to agree that teutons are in a good spot.
Yes, they don’t have a very good response to CA, but they can deal with them, which is fine.
After all, there needs to be a way to crack the Treuton defense. I mean, they’re almost unbeatable in melee, so if they had great responses to archers as well, how the hell would you be supposed to beat them?

There will always be favorable and unfavorable civ matchups I think is inherent in how the game is designed, with the rock, paper, scissor counter-setup. So if your civ is good with rock, it beats civs which are good with scissor, which beat paper, which beats rock.


I think Teutons don’t need a buff to counter CA because they already have halb+SO which is the strongest combo and can counter even CA. Hera has a video for using SO against CA. The real issue is that getting to it is not viable on open maps and that is okay. That is also why Teuton win rate increases on closed maps.

well, they are fine against CA in castle age really, no problem. I can understand it’s a bit much more difficult in Imp against HCA but then again HCA have the same range as skirm without bracer so I don’t think it’s that bad.