Teutons Bonus and Tech Change October

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

would be a cool if it could be done: switch out the straight increase in barracks and stable armor per castle and imperial age for
+1 melee armor for infantry(including teutonic knight) and siege per relic gained up to 4 relics
(Who’s up for a crusade?)

Also switch out ironclad’s + to melee defense to a balanced increase in pierce armor.

I feel this would be more in-line with Teuton gameplay

Deus Vult!

Alternatively, could increase defense per relic like this

1st relic
+1/0 to infantry, cavalry, siege
2nd relic same
3rd relic, only increases siege defense
4th relic increase siege defense

5th/4th/3rd/2nd relic increases keep/tower, castle and town center attack and range by +1 (+1 total)

Tbh, I’d do it more like this:

Ironclad changed to an imperial age tech and gives +3 or 2 pierce armor

1st relic increases tower/town center/castle range and attack by +1
Infantry, cavalry and siege gain +1/0 defense

2nd relic:

siege gain +1/0 defense
Infantry gains +0/1 defense
Cavalry gain +0/1 defense

3rd relic:

siege gain +1/0 defense
Infantry gains +1/0 defense

4th relic:

siege gain +1/0 defense
Infantry gains +0/1 defense

In total for stat improvements by the fourth relic total would be

+2/2 defense for infantry

+1/1 defense for cavalry

+4/0 defense for siege

+1 attack and range for town centers, towers and castles

And for ironclad being an imperial age tech would give +1, +2 or 3 pierce armor, 4 would look nice, but it has to be balanced

(Added from one of my posts below)

Or alternatively:

Remove the buff to the stable alltogether
and shift the concept to the siege workshop and an increase towards the barracks

Barrack units gain +1/1 armor in castle age and +1/1 in imperial age. (+2/2 total)

Keeps gain +1 attack and range in castle age

Ironclad changed to an imperial age tech and increases pierce armor by 2 or 3

Siege weapons gains +2/0 armor in castle age and +2/0 in imperial age

(Consider giving ironclad both melee and pierce armor)

1 Like
2

What? I really don’t understand those changes

7 Likes
3

It pushes the gameplay of teutons into more of a crusade for the holy relics, and gives their slow but strong gameplay more emphasis rather than just a straight buff to their cavalry and infantry, it makes it a little more balanced and pushes you to work for the buffs

4

Not a fan of such a drastic civ overhaul. No thanks.

7 Likes
5

It’s not drastic and is in-line with how the civ works anyways. It also fixes their ram problem

6

Suddenly changing a civ which has never been about hunting relics into one that is, is a huge change and gives insane bonus value even beyond what lithuanians get for relics.
Lithuanians get up to 4 attack for 2 units.
You’d give all infantry up to +2/2
All cavalry +1/1
And all siege +4/0.
And town center, castle and tower buffs to boot.
That is a drastic change.

2 Likes
7

If this change in their buff were to go through, which part of the buff would you prefer lessened?

8

i’d prefer no change to Teutons, they are already in a good spot and don’t need any changes, let alone this massive overhaul.

6 Likes
9

Indeed April’s patch was a bless for Goths, Lithuanians and Teutons, and even for the Boyar.

10

Lithuanians having leitis which ignores armor is buff compensation enough for their to not be any further benefit on their end.

For Teutons on the other hand, they have further benefit that would help them in the long run that generally makes sense within reason.

From a minimalistic standpoint by the fourth relic
They’d be fine with

+1/0 defense stable units (+1/1 preferred)
+2/0 defense barracks/infantry units (+2/1 preferred)
+4/0 defense siege units (may be lessened, but depends on how the devs see them)
+1 fire range and attack to keeps (+castles and town centers preferred, though this part of the buff is optional anyways)

Changing ironclad to imperial age and effecting pierce armor instead makes more sense, especially with their rams in poor shape, the extra pierce armor will make that make much more sense.
Changing the teutons in this way, coming from a teuton main standpoint, I find that this will increase the enjoyment from playing the civ in general.

Slavs will indirectly gain back the seat for their boyar being top defense-wise, and the Teutons gain a more balanced and fun approach.

11

Teutons have a better eco, better siege, and better barracks. Teutons are a solid civ who don’t really need buffs right now, especially on this scale.

7 Likes
12

Tbh, I don’t really use any units from the barracks from teutons - the only exception is the condottiero when it appears, Teutonic Knights fill the role well enough, and condottiero do well with great speed when available alongside the extra melee defense the teutons provide.
Everything else just seems like a waste of pop space under the 300 pop mark.

Leitis on the other hand are able to decimate the barracks units, stable units, Teutonic Knights, and are more effective against archers than most other cavalry, they(lithuanians) arguably have one of the best and most cost efficient unit in terms of raw power and their focus is on that, and it feels right.
They also have bombard canon and a decent onager upgrade, siege onager not being part of it is never a deal breaker siege-wise.

They may not have siege engineers, but that is also not a deal breaker.

1 Like
13

I like the idea… the straight buff to armor in infantry and cavalry basically makes their paladins unnecessarily powerful. It also puts extra emphasis on them being an Arena civilization.

I suggest you to mod the data set to try those settings out.

3 Likes
14

i honestly and this might be only my opinion think its wierd that lithuanian got the relic bonus and not the teutons since the holy roman empire were all about religion and faith aswell as crusades

3 Likes
15

Why I hate this proposal:

1-It’s a rip-off
2-having to learn what each relic does is horrendously unconvenient

12 Likes
16

  1. It’s a bunch of buffs, nerfs, changes that have been suggested that I happen to agree with and my take on how they might be implemented within balance.

  2. In a game like age of empires 2, the tech tree tends to tell you exactly what you need to know in general about civ bonuses. Something like this would be blatantly obvious. It’s not one of those hidden armor or attack bonuses, it would be blatantly written in the civ description. To say it would be a pain to figure out is just lazy.

  3. In most games, depending on which number of relics gives what buff/s, this will generally be an overall nerf while making teuton gameplay more fun and giving the civ a more defined identity as to what they are and have been. A slow yet powerful defensive civilization.

  4. If relic gathering is really that big of an issue and a straight change to the bonuses would be had, this is what it could be:

Barracks units gain +1/0 armor in castle age and +1/1 armor in imperial age.

Stable units gain +1/0 armor in castle age and +0/1 in imperial age.

Ironclad is changed to an imperial age tech and effects pierce armor instead giving either +2 or +3 pierce armor

Keeps gain +1 attack and range in castle age

Siege units gain +1/0 armor in castle age and +1/0 in imperial. (Or up to 4 depending on how the devs feel would be better)

Or alternatively:

Remove the buff to the stable alltogether
and shift the concept to the siege workshop and an increase towards the barracks

Barrack units gain +1/1 armor in castle age and +1/1 in imperial age. (+2/2 total)

Keeps gain +1 attack and range in castle age

Ironclad changed to an imperial age tech and increases pierce armor by 2 or 3

Siege weapons gains +2/0 armor in castle age and +2/0 in imperial age

(Adding this last one to the main post)

2 Likes
17

Teutons focus is melee armor why you want to add more perce armor when Malians have that for infantry

1 Like
18

I think you mean “Not a fan of any changes, and any change is a mega super dooper extreme drastic 20-year-old-Game overhaul” xD
But this one is too much i agree

2 Likes
19

Hardly. I literally just posted a thread full of changes. So to call me anti change is a falsehood

20

I know you post balance suggestions once in a while. Which i fully support.
Let’s just say you are quite specific about changes, and oppose any other ideas for changes that are even the slightest bit different

2 Likes