Thank you Devs + India balance suggestion

They are indeed tagged as light cavalry. Dare to bet?

They have the light cav tag but not the generic cav tag. Skims do 2x damage to them and culverins do the full 160 damage but units like pikes don’t do bonus damage.

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my dude, dont bet one of the wiki writers lol they’re light cav, but culvs don’t care about that. just true cav. pikes dont do bonus dmg either. I literally wrote the majority of the wiki page on siege elephants

"abstractCavalry* is the tag you need for culvs to do reduced dmg

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Ok I think its time for me to type out my full India adjustments that I personally would like to see considered.

First off, supremacy nerfs. India is strong, but not overpowered. Thus the only nerfs I think would even need to be considered are:

  1. Sepoy +5 seconds added to base train time. This would slightly slow down the sepoy snowball, without a ton of impact otherwise. I don’t think stats need to be adjusted otherwise.
  2. Removal of minutemen from the ottoman consulate. India can FI so shamelessly with this + default tc sentries/irregulars and a fort. Its a lot to push into, honestly.
  3. Possible nerf to zamburak age 2 scaling. Not the biggest issue in the whole world but I wouldn’t mind seeing zambs dropped to 2.5x vs heavy cav by default, up to 3.5 with the card.
  4. Revert Sowars back to TAD multipliers. They are currently as good by default as they used to be with the multiplier card. Its a bit much, they hit skirms way too hard imo.

Now for the lategame buffs I would like to see:

  1. Professional Handlers take Mahouts down to 5 pop each (instead of 6). The unit is slightly underperforming per pop in the latest stages of the game, this would just nudge them to be slightly more viable.
  2. Grazing card. Add an additional benefit “Sacred cows also trickle coin.” This would work to add a sort of factory mechanic, but still build on India’s unique design and existing cards. For you treaty players, this means a slightly earlier fur trade and lets you keep some coin count up longer with a bit better stash of food ready for the fight. For team players this lets them keep up with other civ’s coin eco, since India has a pretty sad eco right now. It should be noted that this should only be sacred cows affected, we don’t need some Llama araucania spawn giving india two age 2 factories for 1 shipment. :flushed:
  3. Karni Mata changed to act on current gather rates instead of base. Nice little buff to paddies and non-agra builds. It’s current effect is just way too small.
  4. Add a Mosque to the ottoman consulate to replace the minutemen. This would allow india to normalize train times and give them access to spies and Imams. Mission fervor would need to be checked to ensure it doesn’t buff Brahmin (healer tag). The slightly slower train time for sepoy suggested above would ensure that the end train time isn’t too rapid. An additional thing to consider is that Terror Charge would have to be reworked. My suggestion would be to halve the cost and have the effect changed to the current speed aura and just siege elephant train time reduction (instead of all cavalry, currently bugged to not include siege elephants like it used to). Tame elephants could be modified to only include train time for siege elephants (since we don’t need instant mahouts), possibly buffing the cost reduction slightly to 15% from 10% (this may be slightly too much alongside the eco buffs, would need testing). The los techs and mercantilism would add a few options here and there without really having impact on civ balance. The XP trickle from the mosque would be nice as well.
  5. Mansabdars arrive at the HC shipment point. This would make them practical to use in FFA and treaty. They currently are too difficult to get into position from the wonder in almost all scenarios and it really is such a pity. This would be a tiny change that would be a vast QOL improvement for all us lategame enjoyers.
  6. Royal Green Jackets - changed to include armies and not just techs. Adds 3 Gurkha to all consulate armies would make the card actually feel worthwhile. Would add a fun little buff to the consulate as well, since India’s is the worst one in age 5. Maybe too stronk though, i’d like feedback on this one.
5 Likes

Aoe 3 tags arent inherited, if they have the light cav tag but not the cav tag, then only the bonuses that specifically mentions light cav will apply

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I died laughing when read this. couldn’t read after this :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Elephants train time are well as they are currently (a bit buff to siege eles would be ok, but I suppouse that just without that bug is enough). I didnt know about the bug.

Monastery tech could buff just eles train time while Mosque one buff camels and actual cavalry (but eles). Camels need buffs, I would see them as Uhlans, higher attack (via multipliers) than cavalry but made of paper.

About sowars, they could get a bonus vs (light?) Cavalry to give them some flavour and keep the traditional advantage of camels over horses while it keeps the melee focus of the civ.

Any special trait on the mosque maybe?? To differenciate it from dutch church.

Edit:

About green jackets, maybe 3/4/5 for each kind of army and european CIR of course, not just for gurkhas.

Terror charge is needed as only speed upgrade that indians have, being just around explorers. Mission farvour could be replaced for another upgrade to buff explorers healing, of course it would be age 4.

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its a mosque so its already better then the church on the xp front.

I dont think them having bonus vs cav is a good idea considering they are already faster then all other cav, they will basically dominate

They could be made tankier to play more into that fast snaring role

Thats other POV, but I think that higher HP plus being fast would be more dominant and dangerous. Thats the reason I said bonus vs light cav as option cause these ones would keep losing vs other heavy cavalry idk.

@dansil92 a 3rd opinion would be aprecciated😄

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Yea given the uniqueness of sowar, it should be more damage oriented rather than HP oriented.

There are 2 kinds of cav in the game :

  1. High HP and general Damage (hussar etc.) Curassier n mohouts being a variation of it. they rely on general damage

  2. Specialized Cav that ONLYY damages due to its multiplier and have slightly lower health (Sowar, Spain Lancers etc.)

I personally would prefer to see a multiplier buff to sowar, and an optional/negligible HP buff. Coz a cav also have to act as meatshield at times, and sowar is not even close to being worthy of it. :slight_smile:

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So I think its a matter of timing for when they will be strong.

A bonus vs cav + the speed would be strong in the early game since they can decide when to fight in low numbers and potentially snowball. Especially since India has full roster access in age 2 so a cav skirm comp would be devastating

A tankier sowar would be more of a age 3-4 problem since they would more likely be part of a ele-urumi sepoy mass where their role would be to prevent the enemy from escaping so the ele-urumi mass can make contact and murder.

Both can be dangerous, so it may just come down to which kind of india do we want

3 Likes

i feel like maybe you misunderstood some of what i wrote, my goal was to keep the auras and end train time of siege elephants (the tad train time on siege elephants, not the bugged one), but just noting techs that need adjustment to avoid instant units if they have access to mosque train times. It would affect all the cav train times, but not siege els so that has to be worked around. The train time for siege els on tad was fine and thats the goal, to maintain that. Speed aura is good, want to keep that as well.

As for sowars yeah they’re a little too quick to have a bonus vs cav. its a fun idea but they are already really quite strong age 2 and india already has 3 anticav age 2 and a 4th in age 3

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If they make buff of India, they lighten up my games a lot :wink:

I like the fact u counted 3rd anti cav too (Rajput) that almost no ones uses, ill be happy if its made more feasible, and not have that penalizing cost.

Apart from that , Just because India has a sepoy rush in age2 1v1 matches, people don’t usually look past that.

India is Jack of all, master of none :confused:

India could’ve been a great and ONLY melee civ in the game, that didn’t happened.
It could’ve been a great Economic civ too ! didn’t happen. !!!
It could’ve been a great Building civ ! that didn’t happen either !!!

Instead we have a civ that impresses people in 1v1 matches, that’s all. And it is / appears to be balanced coz there is no cannons. Simply said, this civ should’ve been more polished / cleaner / oriented , but it is none. Its unique but, have alot of redundancies in cards/units etc thats why , almost no ones uses it, apart from very few players , meanwhile others just speculate when they lose to India and posts and replies to nerf India are created due to that ignorance. :confused:

What do you mean they have no cannons. What are those 1200hp elephants throwing at me?

Good luck with them killing masses of halberdiers

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Imagens auto explicativas para resolver o problema do tempo de treinamento da infantaria índia e sua artilharia quase inútil… em tratado e jogos longos - Era dos Impérios III: DE / III - Discussão - Fórum da Era dos Impérios (ageofempires.com)

a cannon hard countered by skirmishers doesn’t really feel like much of a cannon

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A shame, I like using rajputs in small numbers, i group them with my urumi so people run cav onto them :smiling_imp:

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LOL! :crossed_fingers: :rofl: :rofl:
I really would love to do it, but i can think of very small number of scenarios to do that ! Still such a great and nasty thing to do LOL! :rofl: