Do you like to have a balanced game, or be on one end of a total stomp?
If you like a balanced game, you have the same problem with the system I do. The only way you could ever have a balanced game with the current system is to play a game against someone who only plays the same map as you do on said map. Otherwise you’ll get utterly slammed by, or utterly slam someone with better map experience on a different map with that same ELO rating you have, completely dependent on the map chosen
This isn’t about accurate ratings for bragging rights. This is about making sure the Elo system works to do it’s one job, to get you a game that you actually want to play, when you want to play it, and assure you that it’s actually going to give you a game that isn’t totally ruined from the get-go.
Right now, it cannot possibly do so. If you play at 2k but all you do is play Arena, if you decide one day you actually want to try something new you’ll get absolutely blown off the map in any other mode and this will make the meta stagnate, it’ll make people bored, it’ll keep people in their lanes, and it’ll ruin games whenever someone crosses those lines. It’s a horrid system, and it’s happening now, and it’ll continue to get worse until the problem is solved. The fact that you don’t see this problem means clearly you shouldn’t be part of that motivated subsect of players the Devs should listen to.
But as it stands, the current queue reflects Arabia skill, so it should be the other way around: random map players go to the lobby, and we rename the ranked queue to Arabia-only.
So, you don’t think it’s unfair that some people have to “master” 4 maps, and some have to master 8, because they have less friends ?
So I guess you didn’t take appropriate time to read what was below what you quoted (the matchmaking example I gave was balanced), but since you can’t refrain from calling names again, I guess this is the end of the discussion.
EDIT: I misquoted your paragraph in the message you replied to which probably lead you to not read my reply. See if the new one is better.
RM stands for the random map generation, not the random map choice. Arabia-only is still RM.
Rather than having one half of the community play in the lobby and the other in ranked (which is terrible), it’s much better to keep everyone in the same queue and simply enhance the matchmaker. There’s no need to label one as “casual” and one as “ranked”. Casual players are simply ranked players with lower Elo.
A team of solo queuers gets effectively 1 ban, because they are only guaranteed to be able to dodge their 1 least favorite map. A team of 4 gets 4 bans. That’s 4 times more no matter how you phrase it.
I understand what you’re suggesting, and it works in a situation where there’s a wide variety of maps being played in the pool.
There aren’t.
There are two or three massively different maps being played 95% of the time which are not going to make a strong evaluation of anybody’s overall skill unless they’re good on all of them or bad on all of them. That leads to absolute trainwreck matches. That’s why I’m adamant of not tying elo ratings to maps, but map types, and limiting map selection to pools.
I’m not sure I understand exactly what you suggest but I can say that any system that makes an artificial difference between “Arabia selected via an Arabia-only queue” and “Arabia selected via an open-land-map queue”, must be flawed. A balanced system must assign players the same Elo for both situations, no matter through what the player queued (can detail why if needed). In the same spirit, a poolwise Elo can only work if the maps that you can get are mutually exclusive from one pool to the other. Other than that I would agree but I still don’t see any fundamental difference with an unlimited bans system.
Anyway. There are many ways to solve this and I think we agree. The matchmaker must get info on the player’s preferences and performance. Imo, whether it gets this info through a single queue with unlimited bans, or with multiple opt-in pool queues, only makes a difference for the user interface, but that’s not a very interesting discussion anyway. It’s already miles in front of the current system.
didnt u read my post allrdy ? i said each ban would decrease the proportion of elo u got also inreasing the proportion u lose giving an example if i ban 4 maps and i won then i would het +13 elo instead of +15 and if i lose i would lose -17 instead of -15 … Did u read that ?
why do i have to play a map that i dont want to play ? Maybe i just want to play Arabia or Arena ? Or another one ? Maybe i want to test my skills in only sea map ! U want ppl to play all maps and feel like how u feel thats what i dont like at all.Just leave people do what they wish (unlimited bans)its simple.İf player wants to play only arena let him whats so wrong why do u care Or arabia and arena whats so wrong then all be happy So u will play with ppl who wants to play that map like u want to play in that map.İf u still disagree i will get a feeling that u just want to ppl play in a map where they dont want to play and win to be happy thats all (Seemed to me).
Unlimited bans with elo proportions is best way i see and i dont think its gonna be usefull if u give alt+f4’ers ban or elo punishment.For example im 1.5-1.6k 1v1 ranked noob player.If im gonna be punished as i dont wanna play sea maps or another i would leave ranked matches forever and probably soon i would delete the game no joy against AI really i finished all camps so why do i play then ? Just maybe with some friends time to time . I would never play at lobbies where ppl randomly leaves ruins the game and waste 1-2 hour for no real reason meh…I hope devs wont hear you out then one of the best game we played wont be taken out from our hands.
I feel that to an extend what you are concerned about already happens. If you are a clown and ban Arabia (and arabia-esque maps), you will often play mostly Arena. The opposite is true as well. And there is the third venue which is ban both Arena and Arabia, specialize in playing the uncommon maps… but this is a more difficult path because on maps like Serengetti or Atacama you will find Arabia-only players, and on Hideout or Hillfort you will find some clowns, who are somewhat comfortable on these kind of maps.
Anyway its still very easy to do what you seem to be afraid of. I’ve played 15 Arabias in a row by banning Arena and Nomad, which are the next two more popular maps on this rotation.
On TG is where it gets complicated when I try to solo queue. One ban sucks.
Nope, that just means that there is a 65%chance of someone in that teamgame not wanting to play arabia, there could still be 7/8 players that fav arabia. It’s enough that one person bans the map, or favs another and all 8 might not play it
If you guys don’t want to respect people that want to play a specific map, lets get rid of bans and favs and just vote on the map once the players are matched. I’m pretty confident we will have a 80% playrate on arabia that way.
I would prefer being able to play what i want when i want, bc occasionally i enjoy arena too., but if you guys need to have fair voting to realize that most people want arabia then let’s try that.
In my opinion, make a arabia only queue, heck, make an arena only queue too then we can get into the queue we want to play in. Or you know, unlimited bans.
If there are enough people to f4 so it gets annoying, apparently there is a lot of people being forced to play something they hate.
With the arabia only queue and arena only queue i bet we would solve the alt f4 issue. Make a seperate elo for those if you are worried about elo.
And then we get to the real problem: i want to play a map almost noone else wants to play and i don’t want to have to wait 15minutes to get 7 people that like it too (like it was in voobly days) , i am entitled to have 7 people play the map i like with me even though they hate it.
Its not as big of a problem as this forum makes it seem. This is mainly a mid high level player problem. They like to say on a competitive ladder i should pick the map i play and only play one so i dont care about the others that play and dont value their time. Im super selfish and only care about myself. Its a similar thing in tg. Im so full of myself that even though i agreed to be randomly placed on a team I dont care about the rest of the peoples enjoyment enough to stay in game. I am also so selfish that instead of making a few team mates to make climbing the ladder consistent and enjoyable i just wish to ruin everyones game. This idea also works with maps on team games. This map may be my team mates favorite map but i dont like it so i quite so i can play my favorite.
Well people seem to look at joining the queue like a community contract, and that is kind of true.
The problem is like with other community contracts (like laws and constitutions) the community has to check their contract when a relevant amount of people disagree with it. And not just enforce it harder. Alt f4 shows this disagreement.
It’s like forbidding being gay, realizing more and more people disagree and do it anyway, and instead of saying: maybe it shouldn’t be illegal (questioning the current system) you increase the punishment. It just gets people to leave the contract completely.
We don’t want arabia only players to go to lobby browser, because if we would, we could just make an arabia only queue with it’s own elo and everyone would be happy.
Just like a unlimited ban system it would increase the waiting time for people that want to play migration or other unpopular maps, yes.
But having to play a round of bf is also waiting time for me, if i actually want to play arabia. And i doubt the queue will ever take as long as a bf game.
That is why people suggest a time ban instead of elo loss. This way people like you would have to reconsider is it worth it to quite. Your not just getting out of a mode you dont like your screwing over the other player who may have just got his favorite map.
This is a horrible example. Your comparing something that people have no control over and doesn’t effect others to a game that you have a choice of what you play, can go to an area and play the map you want, and still choose to ruin others fun.
it’s a ok example, since you have in both cases no choice in what you like, you like what you like.
Telling people to just start liking something else is not a good way to keep them in the game. Letting people choose does always affect someone, the desperate unloveable man might remain single because 2 women are allowed to marry, and so would the lonely migration players remain alone or have longer waiting times if the arabia people could just decide to play amongst themselves.
and no, you can not go to another area and play the map you want to play in the same way, that would be the arabia queue, which doesn’t exist. go to lobby browser in this example would be like asking: why aren’t you just friends.
Why doedo you not want a seperate arabia queue, because you fear to loose the power to force people to play on your favorite map noone else likes. If that weren’t the case we would just have a seperate arabia and arena queue, then all your problems are solved, since no other people would be affected by quitting people, since noone would alt f4 anymore (just longer waiting times for those that decide that they don’t want to play arabia and arena) but apparently they could just start liking those and stop ruining others fun (and like in the old days, when you want to enjoy the occational game of Continent, well you wait 5Minutes longer).
I understand that the current system agrees with you, that is because you profit from it. Doesn’t make it objectively fair or good.
No, I fear having the rating system becoming even more pointless.
I don’t care what rating you are if you’ve never made a fishing ship in a rated game.
Rating is to evaluate player skill overall, not how good they are on Arabia.
If we split the queues and the rating for said queues, I’d be fine with it. So long as there’s only one rating to go by, your skill on all maps must be encompassed within that rating and right now, it isn’t because people are gaming the system to avoid playing on other maps.
Or arabia and arena whats so wrong then all be happy 
So u will play with ppl who wants to play that map like u want to play in that map.İf u still disagree i will get a feeling that u just want to ppl play in a map where they dont want to play and win to be happy thats all (Seemed to me).