No they cannot do well if you mass skrims. One of the great advantage of skirms is that you can produce in multiple ranges.
Mongols have literally no econ bonus! Just go berbers camel rush / Vikings fast imp / Chinese fast imp etc. and you will destroy mongols in seconds.
Camel archers and Ratten archers would like to say hi to you as well!
Yeah the cost doesnât effect performance but it effects numbers.
oh, and numbers affect performance. which means when you said cost doesnât affect performance the other day, you were lieing. got it. youâre a liar. thanks for admitting the truth. but then again we all knew you were a liar, equalizer.
I just dont understand, why fix something that is perfectly fine? With so much other things that are much worse and really wrong, like Chinese econ bonus?
Is sending 2 knights/1mangonel a problem? Agian with Mangudai mobility and attack delay and ROF you can pick to fight or not and micro well vs skirms, no?
Yeah no need for eco when you have broken units, and their 40% hunter bonus is very good early game to overwhelm your opponent early. I said yeah the Mongols will need a compensation if they nerfed the Mangudai maybe.
Yeah you are talking here about counter unique units that they have their own role, but is the camel archer and rattan archer broken? No, but Mangudai yes, and with its big deathball even Camel archer and rattan will struggle with them.
I even donât know what the hell are you talking about? What yesterday and numbers and performance?! And again how the cost will effect on performance for a unit?! The cost is thing and the performance is another thing.
Obviously mix in knights / camels / monks. Pure skirms cannot do much but skrims can counter mangudais.
Not really, you dont win early game automatically with Mongols. Its a nice bonus but fades out if you cannot do damage. And if you win, you win because of the early game bonus instead of mangudai. (I would nerf the hunter bonus instead if we need to)
No, same number of camel archer and/or ratten always counter mangudai.
Bro the Mangudai is not fine, you can see this clearly even in tournaments when you take 10 Mangudais and kill 4 trebs in 5 seconds or melt anything with their deathball and fast firing.
Honestly when I lose to mongols none of the moment I blame the mangudai (or even sees it). I either lose to early pressure or if I can withstand that I win with eco.
10 Frank paladins can do that too. Look at the early game, not the late game.
Yeah you said it, it is Paladin so how many upgrades and eco need to reach this state?! So this is one thing, second thing you can ez protect your trebs vs Paladins with Halbs in the front canât you? But can you defend your trebs vs Mangudai?! The answer is no, you canât.
You can if you have skirms. Also at late game you are expected to have economic advantages over mongols.
Edit: since I cannot post anymore with this new account, I will edit here:
âThe Mangudai run into a bar then there is no counter â.
No dont create quote yourself. It is not unsolvable (at least for most of the civs). Their early game is more broken than mangudai, which are not worse than Camel archers.
so you can afford a castle, knights or mangonels, and mangudai, all during early castle age? please tell me how.
ahh but what if they mass up archers/skirms and go to your base? what you going to do then? you canât really just run from them can you?
you donât have broken units in early castle age though, not without crippling your economy.
literally yesterday you told us cost doesnât impact performance of a unit.
they are absolutely tied together. for example - if i have two units with identical stats, but one costs less resources, which one is used? the cheaper one. why? because i can get more of them. therefore cost is affecting performance.
but hey. keep telling lies.
a treb has 150 health and 8 PA minimum (packed), which means even elite mangudai, at their best (8+4+5 damage) are doing 9 damage a shot. 10 mangudai would do 90. that means 2 shots to kill PACKED trebuchets. unpacked trebuchets take 5 damage. which means 50 damage a shot and 3 shots.
so 10 mangudai are not going to be capable of burning down 4 trebs in 5 seconds. exaggeration just makes your argument look weak.
No you canât. The Mangudai will pick your trebs one by one the run away after that. Mangudai is not balanced unit, it is a broken unit with all ways. ROF, siege bonus, basic attack all these things will make this unit terrible to play against. When you get enougu numbers of this unit then literally no counter, donât you know what people say about Manguda?
âThe Mangudai run into a bar then there is no counterâ.
Mangudai have the same range as skirms with equal upgrades, or heck even skirms with only 2 range upgrades. so if they are close enough to pick off your trebs, they are taking damage back.
if there is no counter please explain why mongols have a sub 50% winrate?
for the record i would be fine with nerfing the mangudai, SLIGHTLY, but not without compensation.
and no, reducing the training time or reducing the upgrade, by your own arguments in the past, is not compensation. so either your past arguments are false and lies, or your argument here is that you think Mongols donât need compensation and is a lie. take your pick, either way youâre a liar.
As I said the cost is one thing, and the performance is another thing. You are talking about how the cost effect numbers but not the original stat of the unit. It seems you didnât understand whay I mean so I will give you and example, the cost of militia is 60f, 20g, lets say I want to make the cost 55f, 15g, is this will make the state of militia stronger? The answer is no, the attack will remain the same, the hp will remain the same, the speed will remain the same, the ROF will remain the same, so how the hell cost effect performance?! It effect on numbers.
So?! Does this change how the sick Mangudai pick trebs ez and melt them in seconds?! Same against siege rams and whatever?! The answer is no.
Maybe the Solution should be another way around:
Make Rams more resistant against all kind of ranged attacks, including mangudai, kipchak, mangonelsâŠ
As you only can use rams effectively as a pushing tool if you already have the map control, they shouldnât be killed as easily from the safety of potective walls. Because this is the thing they are supposed for, to break open bases. If they canât perform this because there are ranged counters, this defies the whole concept of rams.
Maybe in exchange rams could be more vulnerable against melee, but the key is, that their implementation is terrible right now because of these ranged counters.
The Mangudai is just one of this kind of units.
Koreans have bad winrate too, is war wagon ok unit?! No it is not. Burmese were always bad even with the old Arambai, was the Arambai ok unit?! No it is not.