For a long time, the Brokengudai (Mangudai) was the most sick broken unit in the game, whatever you try once this unit get enough numbers you are dead, siege vs them of course is not even an option, last time the devs nerfed its speed but hahahaha yeah what a change, so I want to classify what make the Brokengudai sick more than anything.
IMHO, what make the Brokengudai as it is, is 2 things:
1-Their bonus vs siege.
2-The ROF (Which many people ignore how their ROF is deadly with their high attack).
By these 2 points, it will be the base to nerf this unit and here is my suggestion:
Mangudai bonus vs siege reduced from +3 to +2, and from +5 to +3 (Elite).
Mangudai rate of fire increased to 1.85 or 1.8 (was 1.7 due to the civ bonus which is 25% firing faster for CA). (Mangudai ROF is broken more than its bonus vs siege, it is a machine gun CA especially with the original civ bonus for CA and after you get thumb ring it will even shoot faster than anything). the Mangudai attacks faster than even Mongol Cavalry Archers. It is because Thumb Ring actually grants the Mangudai a more significant boost in fire rate .
Thumb ring make the normal CA shoot 11% faster, but it makes Mangudai fire 18% more faster!!! But with their original 25% bonus they are totally machine gun CA and not balanced at all, in total they fire 43% faster!! What the hell?!
Notes about Mangudai nerfs:
One of the nerfs for Mangudai will be enough, if you take the nerf vs siege, then no need to its nerf for ROF; however, the ROF of the Mangudai is not something fine at all imo especially after thumb ring.
If we took both of those nerfs for Mangudai then both of the cost and the training time need to be reduced to compensate those nerfs.
You realize this rate of fire is still slower then Mongol cav archers right? at least until TR is researched? which you don’t prioritize with mangudai?
If the mangudai is to be nerfed again I believe mongols should be buffed elsewhere as compensation. The civ is not so good that it needs to b nerfed
Yeah I know Mangudai is less than the Mongols CA ROF but not with their civ bonus with their 25% fire faster, and with the thumb ring the Mangudai will be litreally a machine gun CA. People were always thinking only about their bonus vs siege, but they totally wrong when they neglect the ROF of Mangudai, a CA unit like Mangudai with 1.7 ROF is not fine thing at all, and after thumb ring they will be even much faster and much better especially with their deadly bonuses and basic attack and their short attack delay.
I totally agree if we nerf the Mangudai they will need a compensation, and if we got those nerfs then I suggest to reduce both of the training time and the cost of Mangudai and the elite upgrade cost (thats again in case we got those nerfs).
I don’t understand, but Mangudai and Mongols as a whole is definitely not broken, so why nerf mangudai and buff other aspects of mongols when there are not much issues?
(From 1v1 perspective the hunting bonus and sight bonus is what makes mongols strong, not mangudai)
the 1.7 is WITH the 25% faster firing bonus, so this is a lie on your part.
and yet you didn’t bring that. when you propose a nerf to a civ bonus or a unit that you think is particularly strong, and yet the civ is okay overall, it is considered good form to propose a counter buff.
you mean the speed that is equal to cavalry archers? not a problem.
the Mangudai attacks faster than even Mongol Cavalry Archers. It is because Thumb Ring actually grants the Mangudai a more significant boost in fire rate.
Mongols midgame is relatively very weak, so you should not wait for mangudai to be stacked
It takes ages to stack mangudai
Mangudai is not op even after massed: they don’t have last armor, and takes away a lot of gold. They are on par with e.g. plumed archers or camel archers
that isn’t compensation. you admitted yesterday that changing the cost of a unit doesn’t impact performance, so how would changing the cost of the upgrade impact the performance of the civ?
by the logic you have shown in the past, your own counter buff is bull. And the training time of the mangudai is okay as is.
Because we take things form Mangudai and give it another thing. The cost and TT will be a good compensation to fill the nerfs (ROF nerfs & siege bonus nerf).
he said the mid game is weak - and its true. they have no eco bonus outside of the hunt bonus (which no longer applies), and in order to get mangudai out you need a castle, which if you’re dropping in early castle age your economy is going to be bad. even if you do drop an early castle age castle, mangudai still take 26 seconds each to train.
but you said yesterday that cost doesn’t impact performance. therefore your compensation is bullcrap and a lie. or what you said about cost affecting performance is bullcrap and a lie. so which is it?