So tell me what’s a better measurement for balance? Your impression? Your vision how the game should be?
Oh man
Just gonna let those threads to speak from itself
Way, way too much for a nerf.
Like, Way, way way too much.
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Way too much?! What is the not much for you?! Instead I give the Mongols many other buffs and even with those nerfs the Mangudai will still very deadly. It is only increasing its ROF by 0.1 at least and reduce the siege bonus because it is too much especially the elite one. The Machinegudai fire 43% faster which is a big joke and not balanced thing at all, and the bonus vs siege is a toxic thing more than being a normal bonus, it is like the toxic obsidian arrows before.
The last guy doing those unnecessary fat letters was parthnan. Like your idol Equalizer he got banned for the way he spoke to others when he fought for his nonsense balance threads.
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Man I swear I put the highlights just to make it clear and give the main points not to insult people.
And how this is nonesense thread?! The Mangudai is broken from 20 years and the devs did nothing to balance the unit.
Way to lie. Since aok days the training time has increased, the attack speed has been slowed, and the frame delay increased.
But yeah. Clearly no changes.
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Nothing worked.
I don’t wanna sound pessimistic, but last time we saw such an active balance topic, the topic and its author were eventually wiped out of the universe.
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The thread had become a parody of itself, the OP had decided to copypaste the same exact blurb every 15 or so posts, was warned, and kept doing it. Speaking of OP.
Yes, way too much. If you’re trying to find a balance point, you don’t do it by changing multiple things at once. They already have been nerfed with the movement speed, which I already said I didn’t like in a thread immediately after the patch and I stand by that. You already know I want their damage vs trebs tweaked. That’s the change I want. As such, I think you’ve really overstretched.
Is fine. You do realize the Mongol Cav archers actually fire faster than that, yes?
Regardless, a number being high in and of itself isn’t a reason to reduce the number. Maybe it’s high for a reason, such as the unit is missing Ring Archer Armor, it’s massed out of a Castle, and it’s expensive to upgrade and mass. They are very strong in mass and that’s a result of the high fire rate and the anti-siege. Just saying this, does not constitute an argument for nerfing them. You need to demonstrate why this is unjust.
It isn’t.
The only part of the Mangudai which is excessively powerful and needs to be brought down a peg is the Mangudai’s efficacy in defending Castles. Trebs are never safe when assailing a Mongol castle, and that’s the only rational option when your Rams do not work (bbc is just as fruitless).
So, re-iterating, yes. Your recommendations are way, way too much.
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If you read the topic very well you will not say that, because the answer is NO. With thumb ring the Mangudai fire FASTER than Mongols CA.
And the nerfs aren’t too much, they will still strong even with those nerfs. 2nd thing, I already gave the Mongols more buffs to compensate Mangudai nerf, which imo much better than the current stat. IMO the Mangudai itself will not need any compensate even with these nerfs, but my compensate suggestions were for the civ not for the Mangudai.
Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they’ve failed comprehension.
After a round of testing, the Mangudai indeed fires faster. But let me make it clear just how slight the difference is. I refilled my water bottle during that test in Scenario editor, in which I set a Mongol Cavalry Archer and a Mangudai to work on two idle enemy barracks. At a minute, I pulled them off, during which time the Mangudai failed to get an extra hit in as a result of the faster firing rate.
This is the difference we’re talking about. A difference in rate of fire so slight it never appears in a minute of testing. This is what you’ve pinpointed as a problem. You are wrong.
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When you want to talk about nerfing a unit, then you should take all its advantage. The Mangudai have lower frame delay, higher attack, bonus ve siege and machine gun fire 43% faster, all these things what make this unit broken. Just nerf the ROF a little bit and nerf the siege bonus, thats it.
That’s three nerfs because they’ve already hit the movement. You do not get anywhere when it comes to balance by pulling all the levers at once just because you do not like the unit. Changing multiple factors of the unit at once is a bad idea, and you are just pointing out all the unique factors of the unit to nerf, as opposed to letting it be unique. Like, Iunno, a unique unit.
Because you are exaggerating, your imagination keep telling you the unit will die with this nerf but it is NOT.
If people keep listening to a guy like YOU and others are like you, the game will die in few months. What keep this game alive are the balance changes, not adding 88 civs/year. You were from those people who said Incas trush is fine, and after Incas got their nerf I am really curious to know your holy opinion. Not only you, many people keep saying No to any change in the game, no news with you budd.
No, I’m rationally assessing the unit as is, and I believe it’s too good in one particular facet, defending its own castles from trebs, and that’s where I want to change it. In the summary of the civ, the most powerful thing the Mongols have is the Mongol Castle, because it’s defended by Mangudai. A Mongol castle is easily one of the hardest in the entire game to kill, and killing multiple Mongol castles is a daunting, absurdly difficult task.
The Mangudai is expensive to field. That is the reason why it’s good. You want to change that. I see no justification for wanting to make the unit worse, besides the fact that you don’t like it. The Mongols are not taking over the world right now, far from it. Why you’d consider heavily nerfing their strongest option makes no sense in the grand scheme of things.
No, I said I think it’s kinda ridiculous they took it away and gave them nothing in return. Your ad hominem will get you into trouble if you keep it up. I would recommend you stop.
No balance changes from 2000 (AOC) to 2013 (AOF). Maybe 1 or 2 small user patch to fix bugs and glitches. And the game was still alive. Then for the next 6 years 2013 (AOF) to 2019 (DE), we didn’t even have 6 balance changes. And the game was still very much alive.
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Ok. The one who decide to nerf/buff any civ are the devs, if they see this unit will need a nerf then they will nerf it. Your opinion is that the unit is fine, and I already said my words for the unit. Until that time, I will really want to see your face when this unit got a nerf.
Dammit, you beat me to it. I was just going after the bits that went after me personally, but then I re-read the second paragraph and he insisted this 22 year old game only lives on because of balance patches and that’s too juicy of bait to not bite. You bit the worm before I did. 
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