I really think after the last buff to Bulgarians to their siege and blacksmith, the civ somehow is broken and really hard to deal with. The Bulgarians now one of the highest winrate in the game, they are now on top 5 winrate even in +1650 elo!!! The increasing of their winrate curve is really huge and fast and i wrote a topic before how the Bulgarians blacksmith with it’s 50% discount on food is really huge buff and their siege too is very cheap to go with, i actually think the Bulgarians blacksmith need nerf and keep their siege discount, i think the blacksmith discount on food should be 30% or 25% not 50%.
I think that this is mostly because people now have discovered that Bulgarians can be played, and they are simply over-playing them to find the right meta, and because it’s the trend.
In the end, we still don’t have the data from the last patch, so we are looking at the data from the last update, when the bulgarians was buffed. Let’s wait and see if the trend adjust and settle itself first. If it doesn’t, then let’s discuss of a buff.
I mean, just look at the suddenly increase in the play rate, it’s a huge anomaly, so maybe the increase in the win rate may be just a consequence of that. Maybe before people didn’t want to even give a chance to bulgas, or even didn’t want to learn how to play them. Then they were buffed, and then again used in a tournament, and people probably gone crazy about emulating their favorite pro.
Unless you have a more specific complain, just high win rate doesn’t prove anything…
The increment can be both a consequence of the increased play rate or of the buff, until we can’t discern one from the other, we can’t discuss of nerf.
As for the data, we still must the data since the release of the LotW, so let’s first see how bulgas win and pick rate are there. Maybe the new civs (and the old buffed ones) took attention from the bulgas, allowing the pick rate to settle.
If then the win rate is still high, then we should discuss potential nerfs.
Yes right, you can say the increasing of the play rate is a factor here, but even by this perspective it can be the opposite, did you get it?! I mean because people pick them so much then they could lose so much in the other hand right?! But no it is not, the winrate is going smoothly with the pick rate and so fast, it is just like anyone pick them will win!!! I think their increasing of winrate even with the increasing of their play rate means the things with this civ is going very smoothly and very easy, i really think their blacksmith is sick
This civ needs Crossbow, they are trash without it. Actually you can remove the Siege Discount if you give them Crossbows: Bulgarians have become to similar too Slavs, thanks to forum users, who were crying for this. The civ is only good in early Feudal and Imperial Age. Lacking Crossbows hurts a lot especially vs Camel and CA civs.
Yes exactly, that’s why I suggested to wait and see. Eventually, the pick rate is going to settle down and adjust, so then if the win rate doesn’t adjust in the following months, then we know that something is wrong.
There is also the possibility that the pick rate will never decrease, maybe because they do are broken and people abuse them, but in that case I think that it requires more than 2 months oh high pick rate to prove it, I would say at least 6, then again we will see potential nerfs.
They have skirms to fight xbows, and cheap blacksmith to get all the upgrades so fast with their 80% working blacksmith!!! Why are you talking like the xbows are the only choice in the game?! And they have also FU for their CA and cheap castles (kreposts) to defend/drop/rush and free militia line upgrades and 50% discount siege upgrades, this civ have the advantage at many fields and easy switching to anything at any time and their cavs with +33% fatser attack is one of the best in the game. Their winrate now is increasing so fast and so smoothly.
Crossbows kill Cavalry Archers and Camels effectively and it would be optimal to go Crossbows after their Feudal Age. Remember this civ has literally no eco bonus. You have to think about early game, not Stirrups Hussars or Siege Discount.
no, bulgarians now top 15 civ, not op. don’t kill a balanced civ. castle age of them are very bad, they are only good on feudal and early imp
high winrate can be explain with hype of buff. pro players tried them
They are top 5 not top 15, and their castle age is really good especially with cheap castles to attack or defend (kreposts), and their UU one if the best UU in the game, and they have +33% attack for their cavs as castle age UT so what do you mean by castle age is very bad?!
Konniks are meh. They die to Archers and do worse in melee combats than a Cavalier.
Crossbow is one of the most important unit in the game and they would perfectly fit to Bulgarians’ playstyle. Bulgarians struggle hard vs Camel+XBOW because they can’t kill the Camels and vs Cavalry Archers. For example if you make 20 skirms the enemy will add 2 Knights and can easily all the skirms while he can’t do that if you have 20 Crossbows.
Oh yeah!!! This is why they have the highest win rate in +1650 elo against a civ like Indians with their Camels and CA, or Turks with their camels and CA too or Cumans or or or…
Man, just stop putting yourself in embarrassing sitiuations and accept the truth that the Bulgarians now have high winrate at any elo and their winrate is sick thanks to their blacksmith, the Bulgarians now have 52% winrate in +1650 elo, now tell me that the players with +1650 elo are NOOBS because they can’t deal with a civ don’t access to xbows?!
Bulgarians now top 4 civ in winrate with increasing +12% this weak, they are now over the Huns at any elo, and now you keep arguing they are weak. If you don’t know how to use them then it is your problem, about tournamens just go as watch what the Bulgarians did in RBW3
i dont think the siege discount was actually from this forum, in fact i dont think either of their buffs originated here. people here just supported it, but i remember them referring to some pros each time, because ive always been against it
so maybe the other aoe forum or a stream?
the way i see it they are very strong at least up until like 1600elo, im not sure beyond that how much xbow hurts them
the meta is literally in favour of either their m@a (which is clearly the cheapest in the game) or a scrush (which they still do well) into knights (which again they do really well) and dropping a defensive tower to fend off archers doesnt hurt their eco 1 bit, unlike other civs that need to go stone if they dropped a tower. and of course castle dropping is hugely difficult to counter, and they can do it easier
and of course any food discount is worth a ton more than the wood or gold discounts other civs get
i dont think they are OP, but maybe high A-tier, but the lack of xbow probably does hurt them a little bit, but then CA were buffed, so they do always have that option…
RBW is not normal settings, hence it is irrelevant how many times they were picked. Bulgarians are have nothing vs top tier civs like Mayans, Aztecs, Vikings and Franks etc. anyways, because they lack an economy bonus and they are awkward.