The Chams - new civ concept

Not nice for you to assume that I am here just to waste time. We all discuss stuff here.

If you want to discuss AOE 1 then you’re not only in the wrong thread but also in the wrong forum. I’m not assuming anything about you, this is just a kind reminder.

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Ok. I just posted Age I stuff here for comparison. No hard feelings? :smiley:

AOE and AOE 2 aren’t the same game, and they don’t have the same level of popularity. If you want to discuss stuff related to AOE then there’s a forum dedicated to that. Please post your thoughts there and stop derailing my thread.

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Agreed. Age wise they are different. Graphically, they are based on the same engine.

This brings me back to Age II, how will the new civ of Chimpansia (or Chimpa) will look in Age II game? Like, besides Champa warrior (which will be similar to Eagle Scout of the Meso-American civs), do you plan to post pictures of a Wonder and/or UU?

A new winner for the most useless team bonus in the game. Except for Mangrove maps which never show up in ranked or tournaments, this isn’t useful anywhere else.

Are you suggesting to make mamelukes a regional unit?

Duplicate of Teutons but anyways, the only land bonus for this civ.

Seems like a pure water civ, conceptually good but until the water play itself gets a rework, won’t be appealing to most of the community.

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The civ seems underpowered. No eco nor major military bonus

I would recomend you to make the UTs civ bonuses somehow. They would actually help the civ quite a bit

Seriously, what is Chimpansia? Such a word doesn’t exist, and if it does exist then it would describe no other than yourself.

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Please guys, don’t feed the troll, EarningOwl85640 is obviously trolling here. Report him if necessary.

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Are you referring to the original post that I made last year in May or the new post that I made 4 days ago? In the new post I did give them some land military bonus.

Please refer to the new post that I made 4 days ago, I changed some of my ideas about this civ.

The new one

I dont see how thwy have any military bonus beyond their eles

Their crossbow line is quite strong after researching the Castle Age tech, not to mention that they also have access to the Elephant Archers.

With military bonuses I mean stuff they can get to use by early castle age. With this civ your options before you get a castle up are awful

The civ lacks an strong help for their early to mid game badically

I"ll be honest, This has so many design flaws and a lot of bonuses are not unique at all.

  1. the 2x2 is good for saving space and that’s it. 25 wood per farm is just Teuton copy, not unique at all. And why do they have farm bonus? it’s weird as a naval civ?. I guess you want to save wood for extra dock and ships but this is just not unique as Teuton already did that.

  2. Free shipwright is great but it comes in too late to be useful in early game.

  3. Trade cogs have +2 pierce armor is nice but it’s only useful in water map team game, so overall, its usages are too limited to be considered a good bonus for other maps and completely useless in 1v1.

  4. The team bonus is terrible, it’s on the same level as old fast farm seeding bonus of incas and maybe even worse.

  5. I can’t say much about UU because you didn’t say anything about their complete combat stats. Tho, I need to mention that bonus against ships for infantries is pretty useless and bonus against infantries for ships is also kinda meh as ship will always dominate infantries from range anyway, not to mention infantries can’t walk on water.

  6. You didn’t mention how much speed does Mong Dong have so idk if Sea Marauders giving 10% is too much or too underwhelming. Also, being able to transport Champa pirates only is too limited to be useful.

  7. Islamization is just bad because this is basically Kipchak mercenary and we all know how bad that UT is. One time use UT trend needs to die out and most people don’t like one time use anyway. Also, why stealing UU from other civ? what’s the point of being UU if you can just outright steal it from Saracens?

I cannot provide solutions for your idea because you haven’t provided Full civs tech tree as a whole package.

Please refer to the new civ proposal about the Chams that I made 4 days ago in this thread, you’re talking about the original post that I made last year.

I’ll repost it here for everyone to see. Please stop referring to the original post that I made last year, thanks.


Navy and Archer civ

Civ Bonuses

Start with a shallow pond of water with two schools of shore fish in it beside the TC

Fishing Ships gather shore fish at the same rate as they gather deep water fish

Shipwright is free

Trade Cogs +2 LOS and +2 Pierce Armor

Battle Elephants are capable of cutting down trees (though one at a time unlike the Onager, could be useful for sneak attacks if the tree line separating the Cham player from the other isn’t very thick)

Team Bonus:

Archers +3 attack against Ship

Unique Units: Champa Pirate (raiding infantry), Dragon Ship (same unit as the one in Scenario Editor, though with a twist: it has 5 transport slots, though the only unit that it can transport is the Champa Pirate)

Unique Technologies: Chinese Crossbow (allowing Crossbowmen to fire a secondary projectile similar to the effect of Hul’che javelineers for Mayan skirmishers, with the first shot dealing full damage and the secondary shot dealing 1 damage), Square Wells (allowing Farms to be harvested by 2 Villagers)

Wonder: Po Klong Garai temple

Tech Tree

Archery Range - no Heavy Cavalry Archer and no Parthian Tactics, but have access to Elephant Archer and Elite Elephant Archer (I feel that Ele Archers should be a regional unit for SE Asian civs as well, not just South Asian ones)

Barracks - no Eagles

Dock - only missing the Heavy Demo Ship

Siege Workshop - no Siege Elephant, no Siege Ram (though have Battering and Capped Ram), no Bombard Cannon, and no Siege Onager

Stable - no Hussar, no Paladin, no Camels, and no Steppe Lancers, though have access to Battle Elephant and Elite Battle Elephant

Ok, Im going to propose a few changes:

Naval and archer civilization

Fishing ships gather from shore fish 50% faster
Two villagers can work at each farm
Archers fire an additional arrow on castle age
Elephants can cut down trees
Shipwright free

Team bonus: Trade units +3/4 armour

Castle age UT: Ballista (Scorpions track moving targets), Red King Army (Elephants +5 melee armour)

Tech tree - Missing blast furnace and thumb ring

Basically Im trying to give them something powerful to use by early castle age

The Ballista one is too similar to the Khmers. Chams weren’t known for their Ballistas, though they were known to have obtained crossbow technology from the Southern Song Dynasty, which was what the Castle Age tech referred to. And Elephants +5 melee armor is too strong, plus the Burmese already have a similar tech called Howdah, so this is just a stronger version of that tech.

I gave them an additional civ bonus “Start with a shallow pond of water with two schools of shore fish in it beside the TC”, which should help their early eco get going.

They introduced the ballistas to the Khmer and used them fairly successfully (some people believe ballista eles were Cham mercenaries from what I have read on wikipedia)

Since they are missing Blast Furnace, no its not OP. Its the same as Tusk Swords, and compared to Burmese you are missing the pierce armour which is the important part of Howdah

And I used the old UTs as civ bonuses because the civ needed help in theur early game, so I needed to use these.

Maybe they are fine with that I guess, but the civ still could use some more flavour on land

The farm bonus isnt worth it as a UT either and isnt even that strong to not be a civ bonus

From what I’ve read, the Khmer either obtained the ballistas from the Vietnamese or directly from the Chinese. Khmers and Chams were arch enemies so it was unlikely that any Cham would help the Khmers.

The Chams, on the other hand, were more well-known for their naval raids (though they also got raided quite a lot by others).

If you take the away the Imperial Age UT, then it would be hard to find another tech to replace it. The “Red King Army” is completely unhistorical, whereas the Square Wells are, since the Chams were known for their elaborate irrigation, which would benefit their farming. Perhaps keep this tech but think of another effect instead of “farms can be harvested by 2 villagers”.