The Coustillier Nerf

The Coustillier now does a base of 25 damage when it uses its charge attack, and the Elite Coustillier does a base of 30 damage. Halberdiers have 60 hit points. That means Halberdiers will be able to get at least few hits in before dying. Put into consideration if the Halberdiers has full blacksmith upgrades.

All that said. Should it be nerfed even further? Will Halberdiers/ or even Pikemen still be a cost-effective counter now at least? How many other units will this affect as well?

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I think Coustillier will be fine now, its damage outside of its charge isn’t that great.

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Let’s see how this nerf works, in paper sounds like really deserved nerf.

Is a castle UU so yes halbs are really effective.
In fact Cataphracts and Leitis kill halbs much faster than Coustiliers 11

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I’m not sure buffing it’s recharged would be wise either. It may be okay enough.

Im fine with it as well. People mustn’t forget these civs have minimal inherent eco bonuses or top level power units whatsoever out side of specific cases. And both of them actually suffer in trash wars due to missing a number of stuff.

So in part burg does need a strong UU. Which as it stands is already countered by heavy cav.

Still one of the strongest UUs in the game, comparable with Leitis and Konnik.
The prob is the utility you get with hit and run still + it’s useslessness in army comps due to the long recharge…

You go either faster knight line and standard compositions or full coustilier.

I’d like to see a change with reduced recharge but even less bonus damage, this would make it good in compositions cause it’s a threat to the enemy backline. I like the utility the charge gives against mass archer / cav archer play. Something what was missing in the game for a long time.

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I do not agree that they need a strong UU, because they already have the easiest available Paladins in the game.

I think the nerf is OK, and Coustillier is one of those kinds of elements that is either OP or underwhelming, in RTS design.
Charge mechanics must either be one hit kills that thin out the ranks, or preferably not exist at all because the low unit stats needed to accommodate this kind of ability, will always hinder the unit after the Charge.

As it is, it is a Vill Killer unit, that is good at raiding Wood lines and Gold piles, and that is alright, because you have 50% off Paladin and early Cavalier upgrades, in case you need a strong pusher, early.

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The leitis that isnt seen anymore?

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I think I heared that the charge attack is not affected by any blacksmith upgrades. Didn’t test it myself though, so I am not 100% sure.

Yes, I think thats the thing, They are aountered by knight line + camels, but their recharge means they have an insane snowball potential. So either you lose heavily with them or turf your opponent.

It’s a bitt too volatile, but they have the knight line to have a more safe “standard” playstile.

True, but they will go either way, which I like. It makes them less “one-trick”.

True, but because lithuanian knight line is so strong too and much easier to mass ;). It also takes away mass archers for the opponent which could be a threat to leitis.
Its just easier to play the knights for lithuanians. Lithuanians often fall behind in feudal, so it’s much harder to go for the UU, which needs much more initial investment and is harder to mass.

Viper was just beaten heavily by leitis / skirm play in lota.
He had some archers which traded him the best in this situation, but couldn’t do the work for him.

Leitis and Coustilier share this thing, they are two of the best UUs in the game, but you need to mass them which is hard to achieve.

Really strong units, almost OP, the only thing holding them back is the production rate.

And that’s why I like to see the change to less reload for the coustilier (for less charge). Then it would enable to make comps with the unit instead of the pure coustilier play. I think the nerf will mean we don’t see much coustilier play anymore, at least in arabia. Maybe only a few not upgraded ones as raiding company, but not as part of a composition.

I hope they will adjust this in later patches.

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yeah, he didn’t anticipate Leitis at all, he literally went serjeant (and misplayed it, by his own admission), one of the the worst units to use against Lithuanians, and didn’t have barracks ready to go halb againt a civ that specializes in heavy cavalry.

becuase he literally had less archers then Dracken did Leitis. if i have 10 archers vs 10 knights who wins?

and hope your opponent plays terribly (again by vipers own admission). so basically your entire argument comes down to Viper played bad but clearly that makes Leitis OP. if i go Skirmishers and get wrecked by knights, does that make knights OP? if i go pure militia line and my opponent goes cav archers and wrecks me, does that make cav archers OP?

yeah and the fact that leitis get wrecked by archers and coustillier suck outside of charge.

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Viper went for a literal meme unit (Serjeant) whose main strength is a lot of Armour, against a unit that ignore Armour.

Not only did Viper go non-Spearman Infantry vs a Cavalry civ, but he went for a unit taht is suboptimal in most situations.

There is no use for non-Huskarl and non-Woad Raider Infantry UUs.

Viper just hadn’t any answer to skirm/leitis. It is almost unpossible to stop that comp.
The only prob you can’t pull it off in arabia usually because you can’t mass the leitis as you need them.

Coustilier has the same prob, it is still op, not as much as it used too, but you can’t mass them. You can’t even play them like the mangudai because you will suffer small losses over time.

So the only use remaining is now as a raiding/sniping unit, a small number of them, because they are almost useless in comps. And thats unfortunate because they have so much utility potential for comps, if their recharge was just 20 secs instead of 40.

Viper was behind that entire game, and didn’t scout what his opponent was doing, and paid the price. plain and simple. that doesn’t make the Leitis OP.

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No it is not. You can do it with Skirm + Halb, and you are not even losing Gold.

Viper just went for a meme, and got punished, even he admitted it.

I’m dubbing this phenomenon “death of the professional AOE 2 player” where people who weren’t involved with the game evaluate the strength of the units within the game by who wins the game with no actual consideration as to why they won the game.

Mayan archers winning with Obsidian arrows? Clearly broken.
People using Leitis efficiently against it’s counter? Needs a nerf
Daut wins RBW matches with Cav Archer, a unit generally considered to be weak until ultra lategame?

… Daut doesn’t count. Buff that ■■■■.

I think the nerf was a bit excessive, to be honest. The Archer glitch was making the unit look really oppressive, with it one-shotting Cavalry archers and such. I would have liked to see them have split bonuses however, with a higher bonus against archers and a lower bonus against the rest of the unit classes (cavalry charge really should be effective against archer lines, just not accidentally glitched to be way too good) so that the unit couldn’t massacre halbs and camels whilst still retaining the threat against non-counters.

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Are konniks that strong?

Attacking fast as Cavalier in Imperial with 14 base attack, plus having two lives and being spammed of Kreposts so yes they are really strong and there are situations where Konniks have little to no counters.

Consider elite: (12+30)+12+12 =》 3 hits halbs (same as leitis), 1 hit arbalest (better than Leitis)
But consider the need to recharge, they have similar strength to leitis
castle age: (8+25)+8+8+8 => 4 hits pikeman (still better than knights)