The future of Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition

In 1392, is established the Joseon dynasty (1392–1897) after a coup d’état that overthrew the Goryeo dynasty in 1388. King Sejong the Great (1418–1450) implemented numerous administrative, social, scientific, and economic reforms, established royal authority in the early years of the dynasty, and personally created Hangul, the Korean alphabet.

After enjoying a period of peace for nearly two centuries, the Joseon dynasty faced foreign invasions and internal factional strife from 1592 to 1637. Most notable of these invasions is the Japanese invasions of Korea, which marked the end of the Joseon dynasty’s early period. The combined force of Ming dynasty of China and the Joseon dynasty repelled these Japanese invasions, but at a cost to the countries. Henceforth, Joseon gradually became more and more isolationist and stagnant. By the mid 19th century, with the country unwilling to modernize, and under encroachment of European powers, Joseon Korea was forced to sign unequal treaties with foreign powers. After the assassination of Empress Myeongseong in 1895, the Donghak Peasant Revolution, and the Gabo Reforms of 1894 to 1896, the Korean Empire (1897–1910) came into existence, heralding a brief but rapid period of social reform and modernization. However, in 1905, the Korean Empire signed a protectorate treaty and in 1910, Japan annexed the Korean Empire. Korea then became a Japanese colony from 1910 to 1945.

In 1866, reacting to greater numbers of Korean converts to Catholicism despite several waves of persecutions, the Joseon court clamped down on them, massacring French Catholic missionaries and Korean converts alike. In response France invaded and occupied portions of Ganghwa Island. The French army occupied Ganghwa Island, an island near Seoul, and tried to advance to Seoul, but failed due to strong resistance from the Korean army, and then withdrew from the island.

The General Sherman, an American-owned armed merchant marine sidewheel schooner, attempted to open Korea to trade in 1866. After an initial miscommunication, the ship sailed upriver and became stranded near Pyongyang. After being ordered to leave by the Korean officials, the American crewmen killed four Korean inhabitants, kidnapped a military officer and engaged in sporadic fighting that continued for four days. After two efforts to destroy the ship failed, she was finally set aflame by Korean fireships laden with explosives.

This incident is celebrated by the DPRK as a precursor to the later USS Pueblo incident. In response, the United States confronted Korea militarily in 1871, killing 243 Koreans in Ganghwa island before withdrawing. This incident is called the Shinmiyangyo in Korea. Five years later, the reclusive Korea signed a trade treaty with Japan, and in 1882 signed a treaty with the United States, ending centuries of isolationism.

5 Likes

would it shock you to know most asking for it are in fact not german?

4 Likes

I kinda share VanBladdeck’s opinion regarding being so insistent on a German split. I just find those people really weird on principle.

4 Likes

I want your opinion - would there be any reason for a German split? And how would that even go?
I’m not entirely sure what the ask for is there. IMO India is the only current civ that would benefit from being split.

It mostly hinges on whether the civs on this game adhere to the Westphalian system which, imo, they do not.

Like the German civ is mostly to represent german peoples in Europe, which is a weird mishmash of just about everything in Central Europe in period, much like the Italian civ, except that one doesn’t get as many complaints as it was developed with DE design sensibilities.

Could you figure out a way to have two German civs? Sure, three even, as Napoleonic Era had way back when, but honestly I feel like these wild claims that Prussia is so very special and unique and separate from Austria are kinda exaggerated and frankly, claimed by people are a tad bit too obsessed with certain parts of European history.

2 Likes

the argument is essentially that Austria and Prussia were (by the end) both great powers and that Germany was a fairly large nation separated into 100s if not 1000s of smaller states with in some cases pretty stark regional difference, Prussia, Austria and Switzerland being noticeable large states that form the basis of 3 modern nation-states.

a split would be in most versions i see a split between Prussia, as a modern gunpowder faction, and Austria which retains a lot of the more old elements of the faction, so doppelsoldner etc.

so imagine for prussia:

needel gunner is a unique unit, perhaps a musketeer.

likely some unique musketeer, grenadier and perhaps melee cav.

likely strong 7 years war and later vibe, strong units.

for austria imagine:

weaker units in general. more archaic units in general like Doppelsoldner and warwagons. Probably strong 30 years war vibe.

isn’t it 4? Swiss, HRE/germans, Austria and Prussia?

anyhow, my own view is i see no reason for a German split, there are more important factions to add, even in Europe but certainly also elsewhere.

for interest btw:

interestingly enough Tilanus gave Prussians a melee infantry unit and couple of melee cav it seems.

3 Likes

Yeah, seems like it’s largely just people who are a lil too into European history who think there’s a major divide needed there.

India could use a split, but I think that’s probably about it out of current civs. An Indian DLC would be cool.

3 Likes

India far more desperately needs a split, but properly doing that would take some very intrusive and extensive changes that would greatly alter the current civ.

Germany also needs a split (especially with all the new content they’re trying to cram into them), but it has the benefit of not actually needing to make any gameplay changes to split them. So it’s less of a split an more of a rename Germany to Austria and add Prussia as something totally new.

As for why it should be split, I just think Prussia could be much more interesting than the remaining European options of Poland and Denmark (not that any of these should be high priority). The federal state mechanic would work nicely with them and they could have interesting tropes like being an “army with a state” by having a strong military but a penalty for training Settlers. Constraining the focus of current Germans to just Austria would also improve their design. Right now there’s way too many mercenaries, natives, and cards that are crammed into the civ, and distributing those between two civs would greatly streamline them. There’s also a shitload of potential campaigns and historical battles that would be possible if you had both Austria and Prussia.

2 Likes

Same, even the federal states mechanic for Prussians/Austrians feel like an overused claim for “uniqueness”.

Even if potential Danes and Poles won’t have some gimmicky age up I still think they’re x1000000 times more important than pushing for a potential German split after Tilanus said no twice.

And of course Asian/African/American and Oceania civs are absolutely welcome.

Imo it would’ve been better to add austria instead of malta in the european dlc, considering germans in the original game were closer to prussians, with friedrich and the prussian flag and such.

But now that germany got modeled into the late hre and the habsburgs being a royal house, i don’t think it’s happening.

1 Like

Malta was done for convenience sake, not because it should’ve been done. There would’ve been far more important countries, like Yemen or the PLC or Siam maybee or a rework of the Mejii restauration for japan.

And yes, India should get split, or a rework to represent the Mughal into maratha into Raj. At the very least. That would also make it more unique and show that india was multiple times under differing rule.

The same COULD be done for germany.

In it’s current form though it is a laughably bad designed civ, f.e. an unit Age gap from the 15th to the 18th century late 18th at that.

2 Likes

ah yes, the Prussian line infantry, grenadiers and dead head hussars how could i forget.

pretty much all civs in game are a snapshot of 1 or 2 periods of that countries history. Spain is mostly based on the early era when they had a golden age for example.

2 Likes

I meant in regards to units.

Which is especially hillarious because it falls within the first “total war” .

The desire for the German split mostly comes from the desire to see two of Europe’s greatest powers from this time period being represented as their own civ instead of the two rivals sharing the same civ. In Napoleonics they talk about the big five, but here Austria and Prussia share the same slot.

It used to be quite easy to do the split. Beyond the AI leader and a RG name on the skirm there just wasnt anything in the civ that was Prussian. Not hard to replace or repurpose in a new civ.

Since DE however they have added a few Prussian themed cards and made several Prussian units available as options through cards. And then they gave the Needlegunner its own skin and renamed the Uhlan RG to Prussian. If it werent for the actual base unit roster and the slew of HRE themed cards (and the flag) you almost start to think they wanted to make the civ Prussians.
There is the possibility to play the civ as the faction you prefer through card choices. but with the influx of new stuff there is always that small hint of Prussia in the background. And that I think is a pity.

3 Likes

Including the Polish author of this topic xDDD

You mean the supporters of the Germans civ division?

I have written about it many times on this forum.

1 Like

The card choices are actually insignificant.

You can’t form a core around imperial line infantry. You can’t even call up the imperial army until Age 3, which is hillarious considering what the imperial army was.

War wagons are the only czech unit, and considering that the kingdom of bohemia was extremely important for a long time is just hillarious.

The Hanse doesn’t exist.

Grenadiers? Elite line infantry? So it can’t even represent prussia.

it’s just flat out badly done.

1 Like

Yemen no, but Oman…

I’d love to see Oman.
I can’t think of any RTS off the top of my head that allows you to play as the Omanis. AoE3 is certainly the right time frame for them.

It happens that the Omanis were strong in the colonial age and since there are not many RTS in this era (Cossacks saga, American Conquest, AoE 3, Empire/Napoleon/Shogun 2 FoS Total War and little else), they are never seen… Now they could appear next to Persia because they are neighbors in the Arabian Sea…

3 Likes

I think there is enough in the civilization for someone to roleplay Austria or Prussia, or even Hessen. The problem is a lot of people want to have their Prussia or Austria build optimized for MP, which ultimately leads people to just saying the Germans should be split two or even three ways so that they can their preferred German-speaking power without adding in things from the other civilization.

2 Likes