The italian separation

What do you think about a separation of civs like the India DLC had for the Italians? I mean, separate the Italians into (for example, not the 5 in 1) Venetians, Genoese, Tuscans, Milanese and Potificians. If you like or not the idea, tell us why.

  • Yeah
  • Nah

0 voters




I honestly don’t think we need 6 (okay, 5,3., I’ll be generous and count Sicilians as part French and part Scandinavian as well) civs for that little appendage of Europe. That seems to go pretty far beyond the scope of Civilizations in this game.


I am sorry but how do you feel about “No”?

Many greetings


I’m partially sympathetic to an eventual Venetian split, but that’s quite low priority. As for the other city-states or regions of influence, obviously not. Like the Italians, you can make a decent argument for splitting the Mayas into 2 civs, although I don’t think that’s necessary. But imagine how ridiculous it would be if I were to advocate for separate civs for each of the major Maya city states - Tikal, Calakmul, Palenque, Bonampak, Mayapan, Chichen Itza, Copán, Kaminaljuyu…totally unnecessary.

In any case, at least 12-16 African, American, and Asian civs should be added before a further Italian split even becomes a half-worthwhile consideration. So…come back in 5 years or so and we can reevaluate this proposition.


If we split Venetians and Genoese from the (Northern) Italians, what would be the UU for the Sforza campaign as the (ostensibly) Milanese? Would the Condottieri become a regional unit?

I could maybe be fine with Italians being split into two or three civs (not counting Sicilians), but five is a bit overkill.

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Five is overkill current italians renamed to lombards or keep as italians,add venice and papacy as new is more than enough.

Papacy and swiss can share a swiss pikeman unit similar to poles and liths.Condo can become a regional unit for italians papacy and venice.

Yeah, i read again and forgot put “like” before the civs, i put the 5 for example.

Medieval India = one fifth of the world’s population, dozens of powerful empires, many dozens (hundreds?) of distinct languages and cultures, many of which aren’t in the game

Medieval Italy = maybe 1% of the world’s population?, dozens of city states with similar cultures, militaries and general ways of life, and similar languages

It’d be nice to have a Venetians civ one day, but there’s just no comparison to me made between India and Italy.


He is bringing the ingame example for civi umbrella breaking not comparing gdp population lad mass etc.

Although at least for a certain period of time the italian city states were kinda autonomous their overall influence imo wasn’t large enough to justify seperate civs. Also culturally they were less distinct than some of the other umbrella civs currently existing in the game. So spitting something like chinese or saracens would make more sense imo. Lastly, from a gameplay perspective I don’t see a reason for such a split either. Italians is a pretty coherent and well-rounded civ with two UU that might not be seen a lot on arabia but are pretty common on other maps making the civ different from other generalist civs with archer focus.

Personaly im just wondering why i havent Seen someone suggest to Split the teutons in Like ten different civs to represent the HRE better 11

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I’d rather see splits of other civs first. China is one of the biggest that people want, after some DLCs elsewhere European civs that are umbrella-y can get split as well.

But design-wise, what would even happen? Would Condotierri become a regional unit (and not part of a team bonus, so no Teuton/Malian Condos?), or what? With the Indians, at least you could feel like they tried to do so many things and could be split (justifiably so), what design-wise would happen with Italians?

Italians need at best 1 more civ


Splitting a huge landmass filled to the brim with different cultures, peoples and languages is not the same as splitting city states with similar languages in their own civs.

When Indian and African civs have been split at least once or twice more, splitting a third time those would maybe be equivalent to split Italy

It didn’t even need Sicilians lol


Never part of Italy Kingdom though

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Probably a bit less contentious if Sicilians were called Normans?..

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You’re right to be fair. When I first read it I thought they were saying Italy should be split because India was, but upon reading it I suppose it is more like they’re saying it could be split in a similar way to how India was, without suggesting that the two are equivalent.


The kingdom of Sicily was just a bastion of the Normans (aka French) who had a very short independence too.

Also, in general the civ stands for nothing that Franks cant represent well enough.