We all know this doesnt happen in high level games.
“Enemies must deal with cavalry attacks from the opening moments of play.” - Explorer – AoE4 World
Instead this tower rush with infantry happens all the time…
Just look the 1st game. Beastyqt plays the Mongols as infantry civ…
What a disgrace… The Mongol civ strength a completely false…
Historically it was fast because the Mongols were all mounted soldiers…
This is what the US army teaches its personnel.
Forty percent of a typical Mongol army consisted of heavy armored cavalry which was used for shock action. The remaining 60 percent consisted of arrow-carrying light cavalry used for reconnaissance, screening, support to the heavy cavalry, mopping-up operations and pursuit.
But somehow, AOEIV’s developers think infantry and everything that is of the Mongols was fast…
This is complete stupidity and the Mongols arent cavalry civilization as the game states as its main strenght…
The Mongol cavalry is the weakest in the game…
All the Mongol bonuses apply to infantry and that makes Mangudai and Keshiks useless and waste of time…
This is the most horribly designed civ of the game because all that mobile building is not very practical (except ger and some landmarks)
Please just remove this civilization from the game because it is wrongly represented in the game! It was never infantry civilization!!!
It was the only civilization throughout the history that used 100% cavalry army in mass.
But this game and its developers who are behind this nonsense thinks the Mongols were good infantry civilization and raided with towers… Let that be done by other civs who mastered tower rushing.
Tower rushing is the most stupid tactic of the game.
Mongols should not have the strongest cavalry, just as it is in the game mongols were very mobile and had strength in numbers. Cataphracts are the strongest of all knights being completely covered in armor, any knight in plate armor would beat a typical mongol cavalry unit.
Mongol have speed and manoeuvrability. Their buildings can move to quickly relocate to new resources or to make a forward base. Deer stones boost all their units speed as do outposts with the aura. Mangudai are the only ranged cavalry than can move and fire. Khan signal arrows provide further bonus to cav. Also I think they are the only civ with dark age horseman. While keshiks aren’t that strong 1v1 they are incredibly cost efficient units.
Mongols are a civ that focuses on raiding and harassing an opponent while they have a very good trade economy. They shouldn’t have very strong and very expensive units like the cataphract.
cataphracts are way too heavily armored slow units. If they fight against Mongol horse archers. They will die without killing any unit. The Mongols never really focused the armored rider, they simply targeted the horses and when it got hit by an arrow, it will usually disable the rider or kill, or make him an infantry. Then the heavy cavs will finish the work. Easy work. This is why the US military says, the Mongols did have quality units, not quantity and they always fought larger armies with less units.
The byzantine cataphracts are only good against infantry. Against normal cavalry, it is too slow and wont do much against them as they will be outmaneuvered easily. They are expensive because of their armor and huge horse. The are the least effecive unit on the battlefield and was no match against the steppe mercenaries.
Plus, dark age horseman is not useful and can be countered easily.
Mangudai is the worst horse archer in the game. It is almost not used at all.
Instead, their infantry gets all the bonuses applied on them and can build siege engines. Plus they are better with all the upgrades than the cavalry units. This is why the Mongol civ in the game is the worst and many people just play the Mongols as the infantry tower rushing civ… Which is against its civilization strenght.
Mangudai become 1 of the most op units in the late game and they are excellent at defending trade and vs knight civs.
There is no way to nerf the tower rush without just nerfing the entire civ. The tower rush is only good because of double production, if you remove double production then that’s a nerf to the whole civ. Nobody makes you do a tower rush either, going trade and mangudai is better in many cases and now with further reduction in tc cost I expect 2 tc to become viable.
The tower rush is only good because the devs are allowing to produce infantry units to get trained 2x… See you dont see the main issue. The Mongols need to only train cavalry units 2x and add more upgrades for them and so on. Their infantry needs to be weaker or something.
Beause the Mongols are not played properly using its main strength.
The civ’s main unit strength is Cavalry.
But as you can see, all pro’s prefer playing the Mongols as infantry civ. That is illustrating what the devs are doing wrong and implementing things that are not of the civ’s strength.
I dont want to nerf the Mongols, I want to see a proper Mongol civilization. Because the current Mongol civilization is not Mongol at all. It is like Chinese civ (the way it plays).
In order to make it a Mongol civ, it needs more cavalry unit types and cavalry bonuses.
AOE2 did is very good. The Mongols have strongest cavalry archer and tanky light and medium cavalry units with basic infantry and good sieges.
But AOEIV’s Mongol civ has very good infantry that gets all the bonuses and upgrades from the civ, but cavalry is the weakest, mangudai is the weakest mounted archer unit and so on.
Don’t worry about what the pro players do, they are less than 0.1% of the player base. Play the civ how you enjoy them and don’t worry about what other people do. If you don’t like mongol then play another civ with good cavalry like rus.
Ahhahah, but they are showing what is the best for the Mongol civ and it is a fact that we cannot deny.
I do play the Mongols as cavalry civ, but I end up losing the game because Mongol cavalry is just horrible.
I dont like playing other civs. I bought the game to mainly play as the Mongols, That is why I am criticizing what is wrong with the civ.
You can say this to any player, then devs dont have to do anything.
I just want the Mongols to be the Mongols.
Current Mongols civ is fake. They use infantry as their main strength.
That is not what history and Mongol main strength tell us.
I completely agree with you, Mongols should be a heavily cav focused civ, their actual meta is so ugly. Tower rush and trade are hateful. Mongols should be hit and run aggro style with cav
Well, thanks to the recently new unit, the Khan Hunter, Mongol horse archers (Mangudais) are now “viable”, before they didn’t even have a place in any kind of game, except for late game in teams if the Mongol had enough resources to spare.
On the other hand, Beasty is playing 1vs1 Mongols against Byzantines, who have the most powerful cavalry unit in the game, so the horse archers or keshik strategy is not so viable.
At least I can say that in Teams, 3vs3, 4vs4, Mongols generally play a lot as cavalry civs, there is a lot of Dark Age Horseman Rush (I) in water maps (to destroy early ports), and Feudal Rush of Keshiks and Mangudais.
Tower Rush in more optimal in 1vs1, but not necessarely in team games, because when that happens, the team know that mongols are delaying their economy to build towers, a barracks and soldiers, so they lead a joint attack against them in a rush in feudal.
Only viable against lower skilled players. It is useless against well-trained and experienced players.
Plus Khan’s Hunter uses the same skin as the Mangudai and it is extremely difficult to differentiate.
Good luck finding Khan’s Hunter when they are on the move and/or during battle…
Exactly, why is Mongol cavalry useless against Byzantine cavalry and must be played as infantry civ.
Historically, the Mongol cavalry units were far superior. It looks like you are one ignorant person who doesn’t want to understand the core issue here…
Because the map is big, so speed is crucial, but when it comes to pop efficiency. The Mongols always lose with their weakest cavalry in the game.
It just sounds stupid for the mongols to build outposts hahahahahah
They never built outposts on steppe. They built stables all around. The civ is designed so wrong. Everything about it is so wrong…
I think your arguments rely way too much on historical things. I find the design of the Mongols pretty good overall.
My thoughts on improving Mongols would me more like
make the packing and unpacking of buildings smoother and smarter
or maybe make the ger accept ressources while being packed - but lower armor while being packed
if they want to improve cavalry, maybe melee cavalry can attack while moving under certain circumstances (not being attacked for example) or some minor tech to give horsemen 2 rapid attacks after they crossed a certain distance or something
I don’t see the problem here. Khan’s Hunter is basically a support unit and you would not want to seperate it from your Mangudai, would you?
Yeah, cuz you don’t care about history…
This is another issue of the new audience.
Most of them came from SC a sci fi game or something like that and they don’t give a **** about it.
This game is all about history. People buy this kind of game because of its rich and amazing period of warfare and so on.
But here you are, a modern audience who doesn’t give a **** about history. Good job!!!
I hope devs will not listen this kind of players…
Dude, I’ve been playing computer games since 1994 and I’ve read books about history, both fiction and science.
This is a real-time strategy game based on history. If you wanna roleplay as medieval king - go for it - I don’t care
Let’s say you see a bunch of 10 mangudai or Khan’s hunters - why would you need to know by sight the amount of Khan’s hunters on your or on the enemies army?
I don’t know what league you’re in, but it seems more like an unbiased comment than something to be taken seriously. They are used in major leagues and they are effective.
Now I see that you are just being offensive. You cannot be taken seriously.
Producing camps with “control towers” to threaten villages is a valid military strategy in history, especially for bandits who plunder roads and armies that leave control points over certain villages, to prevent them from rebelling, to advance certain roads, or growing too much.
The strategy only takes place in the Dark Ages, and with one tower, so it is not that this limits the Mongols to a single strategy, another thing is that there are players who cannot overcome this type of offensive and believe that the Mongols only depend on that.
Not so much, if this user really wanted a historical representation, he would show sources, or at least his arguments should make sense.
But they do not, he spends his time insulting or denigrating the rest of the users who do not think like him, which encourages no serious debate.
LOL, you talk like a bronze league player.
By sniping Khan’s Hunter, mangudais will lose their bonuses.
That means more advantage…
Read more books and so on. You are lacking way too much basic knowledge.
