The most useless unique techs in AOE2 DE

Here is my list of utterly useless unique techs that no one ever wants to research:

  1. Mongols - Nomads 300W 150G, lost houses dont decrease pop

This has to be the most useless tech in the game - nobody cares about that, nobody wants this and for that price I will remake my houses instead.

  1. Lithuanians - Hill Forts 250F 250G - Town Centers +3 range

This just doesnt make any sense - why would anyone build a castle and then research this tech? TCs suck at dealing damage - they need to be garizoned and they still have low attack and by the way I already have a castle. Zero synergy, zero logic, zero usability.

  1. Incas - Andean Sling 200F 300G - no minimum range on skirmishers and slingers

No minimum range for units with 30HP? Hmm by the way if anything gets close they will die anyway - the impact of this tech is very close to zero - just a waste of resources.

  1. Huns - Atheism 500F 500G - enemy relics generate -50% gold, + 100 years relic victory

So 500 food and 500 gold for this? Are you serious? Relic victory does not work in ranked so you only get the -50% gold generation. This tech is very expensive for what it does and ultra situational. You dont really know if the match is going to last super long and you need to be floating a ton of resources to be able to afford that.

  1. Dravidians - Medical Corps 350F 250G - 20 HP regen for elephants

20 HP per minute? Hello these units have almost 300hp…I will be much better off with 3 monks healing my elephantos anyway.

We have some more bad tech that are not in that category of bad but they still suck:

Chinese - Great Wall 400W 200S - 30% hp for walls and towers - it’s situational at best - researching this only makes sense if you are in post imp and want a beefier bombard tower / walls.

Spanish - Inquisition 100F, 300G - monks convert faster - Why would I build a castle and then research that? Noone ever does that, you need to spend the gold for other more useful things like conqs, knights, siege and even monks…

Celts - Stronghold 250F 200G - castles and towers fire 25% faster - zero synergy, as a Celt you dont care about castles and towers firing faster. You dont get bracer and for defence you rely upon infantry and siege as always.

Ethiopians - Royal Heirs #### 300G - Shotels are made nearly instantly - you are creating them really fast anyway, you dont need this.

Saracens - Counterweighs 650F 500G - Trebs and Magonnels +15% attack - again this is situational at best, only useful in post imp scenario where you are floating a ton of resources.

Slavs - Detinets 400W 200G - replaces 40% of stone cost for castles and towers with wood - again zero synergy and a really weird upgrade overall - they made it recently but in my opinion it still sucks.


you have no idea how much this tech is used in team game, or people playing against AI

I’d actually leave it and wait for people to explore on this, perhaps a cost reduction would work.

slinger just needs a +1 attack and this would be semi useful

already changed, dont need another change

maybe 30 hp/min instead of 20

could use a buff

works great with missionary and monks, I’d not touch this at all.

if you feel theres no synergy in this, then make a strategic play that work your castle/tower and faster attack into this

when you’re down to 1 castle and can’t afford another with expensive stone cost, this tech is a big boost

just shows theres always people that will complain. should we remove this and add back the old saracen UT? I am actually all for it.

this actually makes slavs quite powerful.


maybe change to 200w/150g. its not exactly a power spike, and the food holds it back in castle age

still wonder why devs hate drav so much that they didnt start with this rate

tbf 2million other players didnt get it to work, clearly theres an issue, and not on OP to “make a strategic play”

if it were on a defensive civ it would make more sense

so xbows then? no. they were nerfed for a reason. give them something else



Those are actually useful techs. It’s like saying Torsion Engines is useless because it’s in a post imp scenario. The +15% attack is great because it pushes through certain breakpoints - your trebs will take down other trebs in two hits and your onagers will also one-hit certain units they wouldn’t have before.

Detinets also allows Slavs to actually use their UU (which is a very powerful UU mind you), + eternal castle drops everywhere means you can just corner your enemy.

I’d also say Inquisition is probably useful if you go for monks. Converting faster is really really important.

Also, the way the top 5 are described feels like a write-up of T90’s video 11


there is another thread about it and general consensus is that buff it a little. some were saying buffing other things such as infantry speed along side of the current castle/tower attack. I’d rather have them just up this to say 33% or even 40% and perhaps few would bother to risk playing around with it.

xbow still has it’s place as they can be tech’ed into from feudal into castle where as slinger doesnt become available starting in castle so you can’t pre mass them. not to mention that theres no elite version while there is arblester for xbow in imp.

lastly, xbow can be microdmuch easier than slinger. +1 attack on slinger wont affect xbow much, just giving slinger and it’s UT more of an use.

I agree with most of these. A few points, though.

Nomads is situationally useful in maps with extremely limited spaces. You can delete houses to make room for production buildings. Something like arena.

Spanish one is surprisingly good, especially if you make missionaries. What you do is make 5-6 missionaries, pick up this tech, and convert enemy production buildings. Now you don’t have to bring villagers and make stables at the front. It isn’t the greatest, but can be useful when you use missionaries.

Similarly, the slav one is good because it lets you make a lot of boyars quickly. You can use the extra stone to build more castles, or sell it in late game to earn a bit of gold. Not the greatest, but not even close to the worst.

I completely agree with the Incas and dravidian ones, because I play those civs a lot. I usually don’t pick those up (unless late imp when I have a lot of resources) because they are almost entirely useless.

No, both are actually way better than the previous ones (Wih Counterweights Saracen trebs win vs other trebs).
Also some like the Chinese UT are that way because Chinese are already a top civ in high level.


Fair enough - they are better than the other ones I listed.

If people who play these civs are researching them then I’m wrong but I dont think they do.

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Really not an attractive UT, the effect is too passive and inactive.
Besides making it beneficial for other pop-providing buildings as well (TCs, Castles, Barracks with Slav allies, etc.), making it allow TCs to be packed into wagons would at least give it some interesting gimmicks as well.

The biggest advantage of +3 range is that it can fire to Mangonel and Monks who don’t have Block Printing. Based on the fact that you already have a Castle with at least 8 range for defense, I don’t think pure cost reduction would make it attractive, unless you make it really really cheap to allow people to try it whenever.

I had once suggested making it autofire in addition to the +3 range. This could make TCs very effective against raids, which is helpful in the late game when players are very busy. Then, give Tigui a new castle UT effect, perhaps an economy one.

Maybe also make Scorpion no minimum range? I have no idea.

3 ways here:

  1. Make it cheap enough to allow people to try it whenever they wish.
  2. Change the cost of gold to wood, and then still have to reduce the price a bit.
  3. Add more effects, such as allowing melee units to kill monks in one strike, which can be a move to force the opponent abandon the monk strategy.

It may be helpful to change its stone cost to other type of resources.
And, maybe lowering to about 20% to allow it to benefit Castles could also be considered.

Unlike the others you listed, this one is actually a niche but pretty strong UT.
I had watched an Arena match that Vinchester’s Spanish vs. Running’s Byzantines. Vinchester showed the power of the Inquisition and reverse the game.

Indeed, the lack of range makes the buff less effective.
Making it allow Castles to fire more arrows, which someone else mentioned in the another thread, maybe helps, but I think it’s too similar to Yasama. Besides keeping the faster firing, Perhaps make it simply and effectively give Castle more attack, and let the extra arrows still belong to Yasama.

I check the fandom wiki and there shows that Royal Heirs halves their base creation time from 8 seconds to 4 seconds.
Considering that 50% off is a huge number, meaning you only need half as many Castles, it seems not bad in theory.
But I can understand it does deserve better. I would consider changing Shotels’ creation time to 6 seconds, and the effect of Royal Heirs to team infantry UU +X% health.


Best reply so far!

If we are thinking on how to fix them, we should be focusing on the first five as they are the most useless.

I think the Lithuanians and Mongols techs are beyond fixing - they must be changed completely. Even if these techs were cheaper they will still be useless. I think that we need something completely different for these two.

The Huns tech - your suggestions are good - price reduction will be great or adding another effect like boosting your own relics or something of the sort. That thing with killing monks with one strike sounds cool too.

Incas - not sure how to boost skirmishers and slings without making them OP. What if you boost 10 hp for slings and skirms - that way they will be much better overall.

Dravidians - this tech definitely needs a buff, not sure if 30hp per minute will do it but at least it will be 50% better than the current one.

I think the idea of extending the nomad bonus to other buildings is interesting, but not enough. Maybe it could give you back a portion of your buildings’ wood cost when they are destroyed? (excluding farms and fishing traps) It kind of sound like Madrasah, but I think it would be far more useful…

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Mongol Nomad: If it pertained to all buildings it would be a decent tech, I think. How often do you get pop-capped just because a castle is destroyed? Would be a bit quality of life for the Mongol late game (especially since the opponent tends to target the mangudai-producing castles.

Chinese Great Wall: The effect should just be stronger (+50%?), but not affect castles. Just to create an incentive to use walls/towers also in the later stages of the game more often.

Celts Stronghold: As mentioned in the other thread, I would additionally give +1 range.

Huns Atheism: Either remove gold cost, or increase effect (maybe even close to -100%). Could create interesting predicaments for the opponent on maps like Arena.

Spanish Inquisition looks fine to me, even though it is situational.

C’mon, let’s try first.

I have long called for the effect of Tigui to be transferred to Hill Forts. Without the need to low the cost, The extra 3 range + firing arrows on its own could really make TC a decent defensive building like the tech’s name is.

For Nomads, giving gimmicks is a good way to make it more attractive, because too many buffs or even becoming another new tech can easily make the Mongols too strong in my opinion. Also I’d love to see this in normal games in AoE2, it seems as fun as AoE3 Covered Wagon.

I think this idea is complete enough by itself to be a bonus or UT for a new civ.

Thanks. I would most like to see this myself, because it not only serves as a niche but powerful option to avoid uninteresting price cuts or heavier punishments for opponents, but also reflects the origin of “atheism”, the fear given to Europeans by the destruction of churches and monks by the Huns.

Too strong. Just want to say that the Scorpion without a minimum range may meet Andean Sling’s characteristics, so that is why I stated.

How about 30% for elephants, and 40% for elite elephants?

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Before the additional effect of Relic gold reduction for enemy players was added, I suggested something similar - Tarkan is immune to conversion like “Hero” units.

No need. Chinese OP.

We have Crenellation and Euopseng. It won’t be a problem.

Doesn’t fit into their identity. Maybe only for pikeman?

Regeneration of such small amount (even after 50% buff) on such huge HP unit is useless. Also the civ is the worst land map 1v1 civ according to stats. Just give +40 HP to all elephant units. Or maybe +50HP for EA and Armored ele (Civ lacks Bloodline btw. So subtract 20 to compare with generic).

Guess op got inspiration from this.

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I still wish Yasama give Castles extra arrows too. Japanese castles are symbols of their history and nation, and many important cities today have developed from castles as the center.

On the other hand, faster-firing defensive buildings are an interesting concept in themselves, just need more as a UT.
2 ideas here:

  1. Let Stronghold keep the faster rate of fire effect for Castles and Towers, and may even benefit TCs. And Stronghold would also give Castles’ first arrow a deadlier attack, maybe +20 attack.
  2. The faster rate of fire effect is removed from Stronghold and becomes a bonus or UT for a future new civilization. Stronghold would get a brand new effect like +6 attack for every Castles’ arrow, or something else.

I think that actually lives up to the tech’s name (if that’s what you’re questioning).
Team infantry UU, means including your Shotels, your allies’ Berserks, Samurais, Urumis, Huskarls, etc. excluding the common Barrack infantry units like Pikemen.

Royal Heirs would symbolize the exalted background of these honorable warriors trained from Castles. They may have been members or loyal retainers of a family or clan of nobility or royalty. Special identities are expressed as extra health.

This also helps infantry UUs which are generally weak and rare to see compared to other UUs.

I agree on all except Countweights and Detinets which are great imho


A lot of the techs on the list are indeed known to be pretty useless but you also mention some that can be very useful even if quite niche at the same time.

That’s actually a decent tech. Very situational but when you play slingers vs gold infantry in imp (meaning not just a handful of units) this tech can be quite important. Background is that incas obviously don’t have something like hussar as meatshield. So sometimes it’s actually hard to keep the distance between units which is when andean sling comes in very handy.

Usually you don’t, true, but I had games that went down to spamming infantry UU from both sides in which case this case really gives you the upper hand because no matter how fast your units die you’ll get to max pop almost instantly as long as you can afford it. Another case of extremely niche but in some very specific situations really useful.

Actually a very good tech on arena. When you play monk rush the opponent oftentimes builds a defensive castle at some point which usually results in you securing the forward position with your own castle and rush imp. You can then get the tech on your way to imp and your monks will be on a whole different level. I’ve won a lot of games this way (obviously hard to say if the win stems from the tech or not but anyways you get the conversions really fast so surely a big buff).

While in the others cases I’d at least agree that they aren’t universally useful here I heavily disagree. This tech is just insane going into late game. You can pretty much cover every part of your eco with castles and have your army focused on your opponents base. Also makes replacing and repairing castles way easier. Great UT.


Speaking of useless UTs, I think the Japanese Kataparuto is one of them.

Not only is it rarely used (at least what I’ve observed), but even in the games that it’s been researched it’s irrelevant. What’s more it’s completely fictional with 0% connection to Japanese history and culture. As an UT that should reflect the history and culture of a civilization, this is hard for me to accept.

It just so happens that people have been talking about how to help Samurai recently, such as giving a new mode and so on. We should make a new UT unlock those new things for Samurai and let it replace Kataparuto. To make up for lost siege buffs, the Japanese could have access to Bombard Cannons, which also fits with their history of rapid adoption and heavy use of gunpowder weapons like teppo (hand cannon / musket) and ĹŤdzutsu (artillery).


Why not a generic tech at university?

I think Bengalis UT Mahyana is actually useless. Even if you overboom with 140 villagers, you will get only 4 more pop space than Goths who got it for free as soon as hitting Imperial. The idea was Bengalis elephants and chariots are way more pop efficient that Goths infantry but I don’t find the tech to be useful enough.