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WC wont survive 5 seconds. He should be at back training jannies and giving aura. Also there is no space to reach the canons.
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Musketeers outnumber AKs (which have penalty vs them)
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AK are slow af
Iām guessing you play treaty or something?
Try Aztec only once 4v4 team game please.
All knights you mentioned are only XP to opponent.
*JPK I would say is ok in 1v1 but melee type is trash in team game.
This civ was already unusable in team game and treaty (from treaty players), while continuously getting nerf in recently patches, people are still saying Aztec this strong that strong, why not suggest to remove this civ if under such seriously discrimination?
For this situation just share an experience. I am not going to change your mind because you donāt use Aztecā¦ Just sharing.
I had a team game 2 days ago, a friend who is good player 1800+ but he didnāt use Aztec before. In that game he trained a group ERK as goon, but facing my Toma + my teammate 2 falcs push (This combination is very common), his ERK canāt do much because ERK x0.75 against my toma, donāt have bonus VS artillery, falcs shoot ERK much effective than goon, he get used to control goon like this therefore he lost the fight.
If he was using normal goon not ERK, goon can already deal with 2 falcs and still fight against Toma (due to Toma is low range attack musk type). For same type fighting this will be totally different result if he doesnāt use Aztec.
Another point I want to add, AK range attack 11 x5 bonus against artillery 0.75 RR, 13.75 per hit. Namely you need to have 3 batches AK total 15 hit in range 30 to one shot a falcs. Total (50f+80g) x 15 = 2025 resources.
For culv you can only train 2 with 34 range, 1000 resources. 
No one trains AK in team game. In 1v1ā¦they are forced to train, may be
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I cannot speak to their efficiency in team or treaty because I do not play those modes. I exclusively play ranked 1v1.
In 1v1 AKās are fantastic anti-artillery, not only do they have huge range and high mobility but you can use them at a forward base to constantly kite other units as well. The cost compared to culverin isnāt really important because it is their combination of mobility and high range which makes them good, people just rush down culverin for example and it is hard to get them away from a fight.
if your friend has never played aztec do you really expect him to just pick it up and spam the unit and win?
thats not even a unit problem thats a civ knowledge problem
like even knowing the shipments you need to have in deck is important, since erk get 16 range from the temple shipment which allows them to kite better.
Also on the artillery point, people raise this up a lot that they donāt have multipliers against artillery. They are also a unit with 1.5 rof and also 1 pop. 2 erk has more dps against artillery then a dragoon.
Yes they are expensive, yes it means you canāt compare even numbered fights which can really messes with peopleās heads but it doesnāt mean that they are weak.
its would be like smashing 5 cossacks and 5 hussars together (the hussars will always win this) and then concluding that cossacks are weak
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AK or culv main purpose is not unit, if you think AK need double resources and triple batches to do the same function can be called strong, I have nothing to say.
You are misleading my point, a 1800+ player with correct BO and deck (a correct BO no need use this civ many times, he has tried already) and he has enough knowledge for the game, otherwise can you play a new RTS game at a high rank only with APM but without knowledge in the game?
The main point is what goon general doing, ERK canāt do. They even canāt HR cav, donāt have resistance for artillery. A unit canāt do its role, is strong? A civ need to combine several units and each of these units need to pay much more, to achieve common civ function, is strong?
ERK were stronger because they donāt have speed, now they are nerfed like a goon but donāt have goon bonus, so? Yes their attack is stronger by cost and less pop, but they are not working well in their role, at least in team game.
For age3 2 falcs card timing, ERK will not have double number as goon, and again they donāt have resistance like goon against artillery.
you stated that he hasnāt used aztec before, so I assumed he doesnāt , so noted there, but the point still stands, its very difficult to execute stuff well if you havenāt actually done it before and expect to do well against people of similar skill level.
no you donāt and this game is not aoe 2, knowledge donāt transfer well between civ, even if you have high apm. heck even pros barely know how to play mexico and like 1 person knows how to play well with them.
Iām not saying your friend is bad at the game but his performance in a civ that he hasnāt played, even if he roughly knows the BO and has a decent deck is not indicative of the civ or its unitās power.
I play china and hausa decently well, asking me to play japan or india or even brits and I will struggle, even if I know the BO and their units are better then chinese units.
goons donāt have resistance against artillery either are you mistaking something?
and have you considered that if the civs are very different, you play it differently?
like against a 2 falcs timing push, the answer is the arrow knights shipment and some slingers to scare away muskets?
and you will say the arrow knights is shit as well and you have said cause it takes 15 to oneshot compared to 2 culvs its shit. but like maybe you also donāt need to oneshot for you to kill it? That it will take the 7 arrow knight shipment about 2 volleys to kill it with that 1.5rof?
Like I play china, are hand mortars also shit because it it takes 7 shots to kill a falc?
Like to me people keep trying to get these civs to play like how they expect euro civs to play, and that just wonāt happen. a lot of them might be decent doing that but a lot of stuff in this game is just designed so differently that you canāt think like that
RTS is not only AOE, I play sc2 and War3, do you try it only with APM no knowledge to achieve ranker?
I had showed to another person in a Malta post before, I only use less than 5 times Malta and I even lose the game I still can be the second strong player in a 4v4 game with 6 1800+ and some are top 50 elo team game players. I just learn the BO and I am 1500 team elo only. @OriginalKnot717 knows this but he denyed.
So I donāt have struggling if I know the BOs
May be I express not good, I am saying this.
Hand Mortar 50f90w x7 = 980 resources, less than 2 culvs, how do you calculate? AK need 2025 resources can you check? Mortar 34 range AK 30 range?? No checking?
Under same resources 34 range 1 shot kill, 30 range 2 shots. Is stronger?
What is different from the people saying Kanya is strong can while they have almost lowest status in the game.
Why do you keep mentioning the cost? If cost effectiveness was the most important factor then russia would be S+ tier.
If I ff with 2 forward noble huts with aztec and make arrow and eagle runner knights I can just kite back all day as well as dictating the fight because if left unchallenged AKās siege down your whole base.
Go and do a FF yourself and try the same thing with culverin and some musk.
thats the case shot attack, it doesnāt exist for most civs (only swede) and is locked behind a card and also if you also notice, they also have it for shock infantry , which applies to he ERK.
my point was that you are trying to have the AK fit what you expect the culvs to perform. yeah to one shot they will take more units. but why are you trying to even get them to oneshot? an AK fires can fire 2 more shots before falcs and culvs fires their second shot.
If we go with your res to oneshot metric, to make the AK good we it to cost about 1k res to one shot a culv.
To add in a maybe a more comparable unit with supposedly similar roles, the japanese yabusame.
The unit cost 210 res, has 9 base attack(10.8 with auto vet) with x7 multi against artillery, by this measure it takes 11 shots to oneshot a falc and therefore costing japan 2310 res to get the same value as a culv, maybe slighly less with the range atk wonder buff. Is this bad as well? And it only has 18 range as well. Not everything needs to oneshot.
Then to make the AK as good as you imagine it need to be lets keep the cost current and so about 7 AK, for them to oneshot they would need an x11 multiplier against artillery, we can mod that in and see if its good enough for you.
Good for you for being able to do that but that still doesnāt say anything about a civs strength, and this was about your friend in a 2v2 not you in a 4v4
ā¦Cost is not important in the game? are you serious?
So abus +5 gold is not a nerf now. LOL!
OMG I am talking to a person about balance who consider cost is not important! letās stop you are wasting my time.
Show me the record?
Because one shot falc is importantā¦especially AK has less range.
Oto Slin is weak, for same reason, 8x 1.5 ROF weaker than 16 x 3 ROF first you need to realize this concept.
Two batch armies meet together, for first shot low attack always lose more than high attack.
Yabusame is range cav typeā¦make sure we are talking same unit type. We are not going to say skirm need how many shots to kill a falc.
Japanese has flaming arrow 3 shots to kill a falcā¦1200 resources.
Both 4v4 but it doesnāt matter. Goon can fight against falcs + toma but ERK is harder.
If a civ weak as bottom, how did a noob in loser team between good players game get second strong in the game?
is the fulani also shit to you as well then?
javelin rider and basically all cav archers, bow rider and rifle rider.
If so then we should remove that heavy cavalry tag from the rifle riders then cause they only have 13 atk at 1.5 rof, they will just die to goons anyway cause the atk is lower
While we are at it aenna should also get its rof decreasing mechanic back cause it only has 12 base attack
Its not like armies fire more than once
they are range cav but they are literally designed to serve similar roles in their civs.
Yabusame is literally considered to japanās culverin
Artillery have a hidden x0.5 multi against arrow knights in order for them to serve their roles
Yeah and people still just make yabusame most of the time since they can kill both culvs and falc, and they aint trying to oneshot everything.
I am not going to comment on your game, I sure as hell werenāt there and there isnāt a recording and I donāt even know what you mean say second strongest
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What do you want to compare one shot kill falcs to other units?
So do you know why people basically train 2 culv to counter falcs, you will not train only 1 ok?
From one shot falcs you keep changing the topic to others OMG.
Can you concentrate on one shot falcs? We are talking AK compared to other anti-artillery units ok?
AK role is to siege and counter artillery ok? Do they do their job better than other anti-artillery? To me is NO ok? reason as before.
If you want to talk about other units trade rate, sorry I am not going to waste the time for that now.
To correct someone else for his bias and misperception to the game is already tired enough.
the we stop here cause changing ur mind that not everything needs to oneshot seems to also be a waste of time.
why do I have to focus on just a narrow thing about oneshotting stuff when that isnāt a good reason to compare units.
culvs function differently the other anti-artillery, if the way that it functions doesnāt work for you then whatever.
i recall reading some high level treaty player wrote a post discussing why AK is worse than culv, and aztec is bad in treaty. i think your captioned discussion above is not on the same track, one is talking in rhe aspect of 1v1 and early ended teamgame; one is talking in late game team game especially the one as late as treaty game.
1 shooting cannons is important in late game. the mass of units are high and the formation is dense. every one shot from heavy cannon remove significant part of infantries and low hp shock infantries.
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The only power of Aztec in team game is only 3 team vils card, send this will have 12 vils team boost for early pressure, such as rush or FF. After time passed and no need wait late team game, Aztec is too difficult to solve massive inf and artillery, especially massive skirm is common in team game, without strong unit like FP and powerful anti-artillery.
Iām not talking with lategame in mind and neither were they I think since their frame of reference for units are all age 3 and all calculations are for age 3 units and made references to 2 falc timings, not some lategame heavy cannon situation. the 15 shots to one shot is based on the age 3 stats of a AK with a 200 hp falc in mind
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