I play ranked game 100% my time. The guy picking these new garbage maps directly kill the current ranked game players base. What a genius!
I want the old pool back! Even Highland, Rivers and Oasis are 100% better than arena, nomad, steppe, team island and the goddamned black forest!!!
The current map pool is what voobly always had as main competitive scene, ofc itâs different than the old map pool that didnât have even half of the competitive maps. Just because u donât like playing them doesnât mean they are garbage. Yes the maps do require completely different skill sets, but theyâre not garbage.
These maps are played often doesnât mean these maps suit for ranked play! Why donât you just put Deathmatch and CBA in the pool?
The most played map in starcraft is BGH. Why donât Blizzard just put this map in the ladder pool? I suggest fire the guy who picks these joke maps.
I didnât say they are played often, I said theyâve always been the main competitive maps, and yes theyâre suited for ranked games. Instead of wanting the game to adjust to you maybe u should adjust to different styles instead.
The main reason those are the main ranked maps is because they have the most fair generation compared to other maps, since in other maps more often than not one player will end up having a huge advantage or disadvantage because the generation made something it shouldnât.
Also if you were actually paying any attention to the changes uâd know death match is a different game mode and it has its separate ranked elo
Also just saying that âdeath match should be in the map poolâ means u have no idea what uâre talking abt to begin with.
I am going to quit anyway.
Enjoy your competitive bf and arena games.
Well, good riddance.
I think the main problem is that the map pool consists of maps that have totally different gameplay. Iâm sure that map pool is great for pro players who know what to do on every map anyway. But it totally sucks for newer players, because now they not only need to learn how to play land maps and how to play water maps, but also how to play maps with a nomad start, how to play Arena, how to playâŠ
Basically every map needs a completely different playstyle - so 3 bans make it better, but donât fix it.
Iâm not even a new player (though I mainly played Arabia-like maps until now) and I was really looking forward to play ranked once bans are outâŠbut now with that new map pool I honestly still donât really feel like playing. I feel like I first need to get a feeling how to open on various maps.
And I imagine that feeling is even worse for players who are actually new.
I think that developers tried to make everyone happy, but it just does not work that way. There is too much difference in this map pool and the maps are very polarizing. Iâm sure there are like 10-20% of players who totally love Black Forest - but Iâm also sure 60-70% totally hate it - thereâs probably a very small amount of players who are neutralâŠand most maps in the pool are like that.
I just hope the devs realize soon that itâs a terrible idea to try to make everyone play every map in this game.
Probably they should make a 3rd ladder and divide the standard games into a standard ladder with only maps that are Arabia-like to some extent (can even put maps with water in there) and another ladder with more specialized maps, where maps like Black Forest, Nomad, Megarandom and Arena can go.
Probably that 2nd pool would not get enough players thoughâŠbut exactly that is the problem: There are not enough people who want to play those maps.
So please Devs, just make a map pool for ranked with maps that are liked by the majority of the community and get away from the idea that every map that has a small fanbase needs to be in the map pool!
You woât make everyone happy - I can promise you that. So please focus on making the majority happy.
How do you know about 10%-20% pp love black forest? I love black forest, if you fonât like just ban it, let another play, ok?
I donât know - it is an estimation and it might be totally wrong - and if it is, the map should definitely stay in the pool. I just donât think it is a good map for competitive play and Iâm pretty sure that a lot of people agree with me here.
and the âif you donât like, just ban itâ-argument doesnât work if the map pool basically just consists of those specialized maps. If they did like 4 ânormalâ maps and 4 special maps then I would totally agree with you (at least for 1v1) - but for some reason they decided to do Arabia and 7 special maps (gold rush probably being the most normal, but it is still very different with all the gold in the middle).
I think the problem is not one specific map in the pool but just that there are too many special maps with too little bans - and you can either fix that by giving more bans or by changing the map pool - I think both options would be fine, but the current situation is not.
@Ulthos I was waiting for this to come, I see you still dont like the current state of the game. So you are against a map pool (whatever it is) in general and against the matchmaking system: you just want
If we all played arabia huns only we wouldnt have these problems. I was this player myself in the past, not because I wanted to (it was fun anyways) but because everybody played only this and was easy to find games fast, which I think should be the goal here. Right? and having somewhat a competitive ladder settingsâŠ
By the way, I agree with original poster, nomad? too much RNG! black forest? can be quite cancerous, literally (and I have been BF player mostly last 5 years)
Can we please not post without having read the comments before? Youre using the argument stated a million times before and that just does not get us anywhere.
I absolutely agree with everything TohuBuWaha said, since his description mostly fit me as well: I want a competitive match where everybody knows what they are doing. However, I dont have the time to play more than maybe 1-2 matches per day on average.
Now, for my noobish (roughly 1550 on voobly) level right now, the ranked maps just dont work due to complete confusion of everybody. In the old pool on e.g. highlands, coastal or continent, I only saw 50% of people fishing (which is gg if the teams are unlucky, e.g. 3 fishing players vs 1).
I dont think this gets better with nomad starts. And this results in way too many games lasting not very long, often times with the most annoying and motivation-killing ending: (just an example:) You have just reached castle age as pocket, have 20 fish as japanese, feel great, and one of your teammates resigns since their opponent has fished and reached castle way before them. Great, another 15 min game, where you built up for nothing.
I also dont think this will be solved by bans and a wider variety of maps. Why would it? The meta will be different on every single map and I dont really feel like starting to learn water/nomad/wallandboom(bf).
I said it before and Ill say it again: Either group similar maps into some sort of ranking subsegment with ban possibilities (e.g. land only: ghost lake, arabia, cenotes, bf, etc.//hybrid: cross, highland, coastal etc.//water:âŠ//nomad:⊠or something similar) or give us back our beloved lobby system for ranked, which allows the community to actually engage with each other and decide for themselves, what they want to play.
I just do not get why maps are forced. I will never get it. The only thing you do by this is âcleanâ the community of âone-trick-poniesâ. BUT I LIKE ONE TRICK PONIES!! (JonSlow on arena ftw <3).
And I know what some people will say now: âDude, nobody will choose water pool and matchmaking will thus take foreverâ - well⊠Whether or not we like it, we live in capitalism. And capitalism says, if nobody wants something, it can disappear (Schumpeter). So either make us all socialists, or stop destroying the community (it makes me honestly super sad seeing how many of my steam friends have already stopped playing DE and went back to HD (!!). I mean⊠HD!!!) o.O
Anyone saying Arena/Nomad/BF shouldnt be in the mappool: BF is by far the most played TG map in voobly (by far), followed by arabia then nomad and then arena. If you claim that these maps shouldnât be in the mappool, then you i doubt you know what ppl want, because this is what they want. If you donât like a map, just ban it, as simple as that.
This mappool is far better than the last one and is pretty much as it should actually be.
What you and most people are missing are, some maps are too boring to some people that finding a whatever map game quick doesnât matter to them and they would rather stop playing entirely and move on to other games. It isnât that i enjoy less on 4v4 arena and enjoy more on arabia, i hate arena. Why would i spend time on sth not entertaining?
The op is just another hypocrite who wants his favourite maps forced to be played and doesnât care for other peopleâs choices. Half the forum on this issue are; muh x map must be added to the pool and the y map must be removed because of my bs reasons.
The bs justifications ppl have for not doing this;
-git gut at all maps, only then you could justify to be on the upper echelons of the glorious leaderboard.
-it would take too much time to find a game and i am unable to understand that this will only effect people who want to play particular maps and not the people who want to find a game fast and doesnât care for the map type.
Arabia and Arena - if the definition of what maps are most standard and competitive is what the top players play, then these two maps has to be in the matchmaking. These two maps are played by the best players in the world in tournament settings for money. If you donât like these maps or are not confident to play them, then the ranked play is not for you.
Nomad style maps - require a different skill set for opening and play style than standard maps, but I guess itâs okay, because there is a demand for them. Otherwise they are too random to be played seriously.
Black Forest - again, high demand in the community, though, this map is not suited for ranked play. Turtling behind 10 layers of stone wall and wasting peoples time will create a lot of frustration. Howerver, I understand that BF is quite popular. The solution might be to include this map only for teamgames because this is when itâs played the most anyway.
Islands - Not sure, hard to judge. Not really a fan of water myself but there probably should be one water map in the mappool, especially when there are bans available.
Goldrush - is similar to Arabia with characteristics similar to Valley because of the resources in the middle. There is a chance for longer games because you need gold later in the game than deer. I think this map is ok for ranked.
Megarandom - donât really want to comment on that. For those who are playing to climb the ladder or care about their elo or rank, this map should be instaban.
For now it looks that the ranked matchmaking mappool is focused on what most people want to play (source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtqCJVNAS04 - 0:50).
But note that this includes all the players (the whole playerbase), not only the competitive players or rank-seeking players.
The other option is to make the matchmaking more competitive which would then probably only include open Arabia-like maps (Cenotes, Ghost Lake, ect.), Arena, and maybe some water but thats it.
They probably want that the highest possible number of players play the ladder so they made the mappool around that.
PS: I donât think itâs possible to make a ladder for each map because the player base is not big enough for it, at least for now.
If I take it from my personal point of view, I donât like randomness so I ban Nomad and Megarandom and I also not a fan of abusing the choke point, so BF. Then I will rely on the fact that most people are not fond of watermaps so I wonât be getting much Islands anyway since this map is going to be frequently banned by opponents and I am good to go. If I want to ban Islands I could just learn Nomad opening and that is not a big deal either. This way I can play pretty standard maps most of the time.
I wanna give youguysâ(developers) salaries MegaRandomly^^ Thx a lot of your effort to prevent me playing a game enjoyably ^^
Exactly.
I agree (other than bringing the old ladder back), this is why I keep saying that we need a ladder for each map individually, the difference in each play style is too huge to just slap them all together, itâs almost as if making people play 5 different games while making the elo count for all 5 at the same time.
And ik about the constant argument that âthe player baseâs too small to separate the ladder for each mapâ, but maybe the reason it isnât growing is because of the current system? A whole lot of people are going back to voobly or HD because of the ranked system, both this one and the one be4 the patch, maybe if they do things right from the get going things could start to change and people would have a reason to want to play DE again. They might never get enough people together the way things are going.
Also they donât need to make it so every individual map has a different ladder, like we could have arabia and gold rush in the same ladder system, and maybe even add something like oasis, I feel like they all play similarly. Same for nomad and steppe, since I believe theyâre mostly the same but nomad has water around. Another map style I feel that could have a competitive spot but I havenât seem much of them yet are maps like coastal, mediterranean, baltic and even crater lake. The style of hybrid map where controling water gives u an advantage but doesnât guarantee a win, unlike proper water maps like islands (note that archipelago probably shouldnât be added in either, since sometimes itâs a hybrid map and sometimes itâs a water map, itâs not consistent if uâll be separated by water or not).
Also for BF, if they recoded the generation code to force the paths between the players to be larger I think it would help solve the walling issue, since it would take a lot more resources and time to make multiple layers of walls. Even reducing the amount of stone in the map could be a good idea, tho Iâd like to hear what more experience people have to say abt this idea.
For clarification: megarandom will literally pick ANY of the maps from the game, not just from the pool.
Including Nomad and Megarandom in the Map Pool is just a crazy idea. Those maps are supposed to be played casually, not competitively. You play ranked games for competition, not for some special experience.
Moreover, it is definitely not okay to have the same map pools for 1v1 RM, Team RM, and DM games. For instance, playing 1v1 RM games or DM games in BF will just ruin the fun playing the game: BF is just a typical team Random game map. You developers should have collected data regarding which maps are adequate for 1v1s/team games/deathmatchs respectively
I thought it was this:
âOn MegaRandom, players never know what kind of map they will get. They can start with various explorers like Skirmishers, Spearmen, or even Camels, or begin the game with Bombard Towers. Oftentimes on MegaRandom, players can experience critical shortages of gold on the map, making Markets one of the most important buildings in the game. Most maps remain fairly open, often with large obstacles in the center of the map like forests or mountains.â
Source: AoE Wiki
I have never played it but it sounds like a meme-map fun to play on a LAN party with drunk friends but not for ranked games, imho.