Well, at least the Elite Army Tactics health boost should be restored if the cost is going to be 400W and 1200G.
16min deli got handcannon elephant, spearman cant counter it
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Yea for Turks it is really hard to get Horse Archer since they need to sacrifice 1 MS to get there also it cost 280 res which is huge. Unit itself is very useful and strong but , Turk eco is so bad overall so idk , without proper testing hard to say anything.
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I watch a guy playing them they are not that strong too either,knights destroy them in big battles
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He made a good point also they have long range nothing counters them maybe olny canons.
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Good things with PUP ;
- Siege Units nearly negate %99 dmg of ranged units has been removed.
- Turks will now have Cav. Archer ( Long waited )
- Now , all civs including Malians & Turks have proper answer to heavy armored units in Feudal age.
- New Mali units are so cool
- Turkish Jannizar changes are mostly welcome ( now they are less extreme unit both against ranged and cav units. )
- Rus nerfes are mostly welcome
Bad things with PUP
- Archer +2 range upgrade can be very strong in most cases. Definitely BROKEN OP with Britons. ( can be re aligned with +0.5 for longbowman & horse archers , +1 for regular archers )
- Incendiary arrows shouldn’t increase archers base attack , but should increase their dmg against siege and buildings little more. Or it could remain same but should give all archer units CD ability to activate for a time being like 4-6 sec alike.
- Great Bombards are hard nerfed like other siege units but their cost remained same , for huge investment like that it needs to be stronger. But now they don’t have proper siege counter so difficult to say whether its good or bad.
- Culverins role ?? Personally i didn’t like it after all. Nearly all siege equipments are now designed to counter mass inf. Which is awkward.
Things should be included in PUP
- PROPER IN GAME MAP EDITOR like in AOEII OMG PLS ?! Is it too hard to get there ? I mean, being able to use current map editor requires people to be half time video game developer or something. COME ON ?!
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Knights should destroy them ofc. After all they are expensive gold intensive heavy units. If heavy cavalry don’t counter them who will ? If you ask me heavy cavalry even do not counter them so hard maybe soft at best. Also keep it in mind that Cav. Archers are fast so they can retreat if things are not for their favor.
Overall they are incredibly strong and nice designed units. But ofc they are way too expensive as they should. Especially for Turks terrible eco they are indeed difficult units to mass. It is hard to implement them into Turks regular strategies.
absolutely not? the point of the increase has nothing to do with the nerf?? the nerf was to making different compoisitions stronger late game instead of spear+HC with siege; IMO.
Well, how strong is +4 melee armor compared to the HP boost?
Same as well. It seems kinda odd honestly
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Siege rework was great, but one concern is how to counter longbow + crossbow + spearman?
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Mass Archers should sort you out 
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Once springalds get fixed. Going archer horseman springalds mango will counter archer crossbow spearman. It will require micro of mangos and horseman and maybe a lil micro of springalds to aim at melee blobs. Your own archers will bobsy block your siege and horseman flanks will keep the spears busy.
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It would be better if springalds, instead of having bonuses against melee infantry, had bonuses against ranged infantry. I think it would be more balanced. It would provide relief for melee infantry, which already has several counters, and we would have another option against ranged.
Mangonels will be ineffective for most players. It will require greater micromanagement and a higher APM. On the other hand, mangonels could have bonuses against melee and ranged infantry to compensate.
This would even help with immersion and it would be more intuitive. It doesn’t make sense for ballistics to cause more damage to armored units than to unarmored ones. And a rain of stones should cause damage to any unit on foot.
Anyway, here we go. I really like this game and I’m ready for next season.
Live version of mangos are extremely effect and benefit immensely from ultra siege mass. I believe the devs what siege to require more control to ne return! (Partly why I’m scared that springalds MIGHT not be bugged but it’s intend that we aim at still targets…plz no dev…)
All that being said, cost fo cost PUP Springalds splash dmg dps is HIGHER cost for cost than a mango. This comparison does not include bonuses. Also Springald dmg doesn’t diminish in dmg over its total area of effect. Every unit that takes springalds dmg takes the full dmg!
Still I’m afraid the current pup springalds might be working as intended…because the great bombard already works perfectly as we’d hope the Springalds to work, but instead of a circle blast radius we’d expect a line/beam like radius. Hopefully its a bug and I’m over thinking it.
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Have you tested the PUP?
They’re not great right now. Anything kills them pretty quickly and they often don’t get their line damage when the target is moving.
That comment was made after playing >20 1v1 matches in the PUP.
Anyone who feels differently may not be using them effectively.
This dude gets it!
To me, it works out like this.
You can choose to have a siege unit that deals a large amount of damage in a concentrated area, but its shots don’t track the enemy so you need to anticipate their movement and ensure you are targeting the leading unit:
It fires 3 projectiles per mangonel, each dealing 12 siege damage (+8 to ranged). They have a tight spread, and each boulder only has .5 tiles in splash… which falls off from the center. Assuming you nail the center of the mass, you’ll hit approx 9 units for 108 damage in the center, falling off from there. 180 if they are attacking ranged units. Keep in mind their firing rate is once every 6.875 seconds. I would be surprised if they could manage 2 shots before the infantry get to them… at the cost of 600 resources per mangonel.
or you could use springalds, which deal damage in straight line from and a bit past their target, targeting the center of the mass:
It fires a single projectile that deals 15 (+10 vs melee infantry) ranged damage, so damage varies depending on ranged armor and unit type. The damage has no fall-off, dealing the same amount to each unit the projectile makes contact with. It fires once every 3.125 seconds, with no wind up/wind down time… so more than 2x as fast a mangonel. Each shot they are all going to make contact with 3-4 units (sometimes more if you are attacking them in a choke). So their damage is 45-60 (+30-40) per volley, per springald. With 2 volleys before they reach the springalds, you’ll deal out 630-840 (+420-560) damage. That being said, you can fire and retreat since they have no setup/teardown time, giving you 3+ volleys (more if you have a unit buffer)
For the price of 3 mangonels you could afford 7 springalds and some change. Once you start firing 8+ springalds at once they deal so much more DPS than a mangonel could ever imagine. Also, it’s harder to kill them with archers, as they would be targeting the frontline of an army, staying a good 12 tiles away from the ranged mass.
I just think that people are not understanding how extremely powerful springalds are going to be compared to mangonels, and that the issues people have with siege aren’t going to be fixed by nerfing the units out of existence. They gave us MORE aoe siege options… so yeah. I’m expecting many more tears from the siege hating crew.
Tis simple geometry my guy
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They are still designing siege units like they are field artillery not siege weapons. They should have poor mobility. Springalds being good against MAA but not any other massed infantry is weird.
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I wanted to write before too much time pass so devs can correct it.The new malian unit freeborn needs a unique look it gets mixed with other units.
I’m still waiting for more UUs for the HRE (Teutonic Knight, Hussite Wagon and Reiter) and the Abbasids (give them 3 Ayyubid units) and maybe one more for the English and French…
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