lots of China hate here. wow
Siege over all should have been nerfed way more. to little to late.
China should have gotten BUFFS to mele units like spears and MAA. There landmarks are the worst in the game hand down.
There dynasties are not cost effective.
No reason to play them at all now till there buffed to compete with Mongols or Abbasid
p.s FL are still good in small groups for harassing. Still a good unit
There are suggestions for making Chinese second landmarks cheaper. I think that would be a good start.
This patch was aimed to fix siege but it’s likely the devs have plans for the civ in the future as they probably want to bring all civs to mongol/delhi level. Chinese siege was simply way too over the top, they still have the strongest bombards in the game but now civs have better chance for counter play.
No need to mention Abbasid because it still needs buff on camel. Instead, Delhi would become tier 1 after this patch. Now FL can be replaced by horseman in most cases.
Well Chinese will still be S-tier boomer in teamgames with ability to boost villager production significantly thanks to Song dynasty.
I imagine China will stay afloat and there will be another busted unit comp with grenadiers or zhu ge nus thanks to siege nerfs (one of their counters). Biggest loser is clocktower, which is still decent.
Chinese players will finally have to be skilled and use imperial officials, dynasties, pagodas and Granaries to maximum to be lategame powerhouse.
If not, why the relic nerf Chinese in spite of its low winning rate? What do you think about it?
For a nation with an inherently low win rate, it should be based on some compensation when partially weakening its characteristics.
You don’t want it to use a certain playstyle and it should be modified to use another playstyle instead of just nerfing that feature outright.
We should not only look at the strong period of Chinese without considering the price paid and the risks taken to reach the strong period. In fact, in most games, especially in 1v1, Chinese can easily be killed in preparation.
We cannot just discuss the advantages of Chinese without ignoring the cost and premise of achieving them.
Yes. If you don’t want it to use a certain playstyle, it should be modified to use another playstyle instead of just nerfing that feature outright.
Played a few team games today.
China players are now just massing Firelancer and NOB. Like 15 plus nob I saw in 2 game. just them 2 units and mabe a few grenaders also.
did i miss something and NOB got a buff?
it’s not true.
We cannot just discuss the advantages of Chinese without ignoring the cost and premise of achieving them.
Due to the limitation of dual landmarks, it takes more than six minutes and thirty seconds for Chinese to mass-produce the Zhuge Nuo.
Even under the supervision of the IO, it takes until the 7th minute to attack the HRE. For HRE, who pursues the ultimate speed, they can start building the landmark of the third era before the 8th minute. Once in the third era, knights and warriors will severely restrain the Zhuge crossbow.
This means that for Chinese, there are only tens of seconds to organize an attack. However, due to the very low movement speed (lower than the foot archers), Zhuge Nuo has almost only one chance to attack.
This makes Zhuge Nu’s play style very low in error tolerance. It can also be seen from the data that the winning rate of Chinese against HRE is the lowest among all civs. It’s 44.4%
I am telling you those guys just discuss on advantages of Chinese in this forums. Or they never play Chinese but keeping crying it strong especially 1v1.
Like IO, They would crying that 20% extra resources coming from nowhere is too OP. But ignore that you got pay 150 resources on it and it does NOT GET OVERALL extra resources. And extra resources only get when villagers handing in and only affect the build which been supervised. Which quite useless in later time. Cuz you cannot Supervised all buildings. Meanwhile Other Civs just get speed boost on different way. Like Rus food boost, Muslim civs Berry boost. ENG cheaper farm with gold. French fast villagers. Cheaper build on store buildings.
They also crying x3 production. YOU CANNOT have X3 production meanwhile you supervising or taxing. Most of guys have that misunderstood like IO could do all of these things in a same time.
What ridiculous. I am telling those people to play Chinese like 50 rounds before you actually going to criticize Chinese.
Is it possible to see a replay of a game like that?
I’m pretty sure China just got attention in this patch, as it had dominant siege and siege was nerfed overall.
Once this changes settled and people adopted to it, it will certainly receive buffs to underperforming aspects. I find China more interesting now that it is no longer a disadvantage to not rush siege.
This exactly.
Just because it might have a short amount of time with a lower winrate doesn’t mean its the end state lol.
Siege was a problem and the devs are clearly trying to address it in general.
China needs to become a faction not leaning on the crutch of the siege meta.
Ultimately this is better for China and the game in general.
The fact some people are saying they’d drop a $60 game if one faction has a dip in winrate is hilariously shortsighted and kinda dumb IMO.
Here Grubby says china is ■■■■ tier, do you want any new evidence? Maybe he does not know what he is talking abot ? 
MY February 2022 TIERLIST - RIP Chinese... | AoE4 | Grubby - YouTube
Regnitz should function like Delhi holy sites imo. 200gold/min for each relic, instead of 300. A relic in a building is already less exposed than a holy site, at least it shouldn’t produce more gold than a site.
Hilarious that people are actually uninstalling the game because their favorite civilization received a nerf. Bunch of little babies out there these days it seems. I actually think Relic is doing a great job with the patches and balancing so far. If the winrate for China falls too far, I guarantee you that they will look to buff them in certain respects in the future. Some of you really need to learn to try some new strategies instead of staring at a concrete build order that you never alter.
I’ve been playing Abbasid in MP mostly since I started playing MP games, and I’ve never once complained about them even though I knew they weren’t considered a top tier civ. I enjoy playing as them and do my best to react to my opponents to give me the best shot at winning. Good lord, it’s honestly embarrassing to see some of you throwing temper tantrums like little children.
Pointing our obvious balance issues is not throwing a tantrum, its called caring for the game. Sure you can do nothing and offer no feedback, this way you are doing a disservice to the game itself.
Nah, there are clearly people here throwing a tantrum. There are literally posts threatening to uninstall the game unless they revert the nerfs.
Like I said, if they are overnerfed, they will receive adjustments in the future. There are plenty of suggestions out there that the developers can draw from. They don’t need me to reiterate things that others have already said. I’m sure they’ve noted what people have said and will watch the data to determine if further adjustments are needed. I’m not going to argue with you about balance because it’s always an ongoing process.
They already had that yet win rate low… lol ffs.
