The Piechur has damage multipliers against at least three types of units. Essentially, it has the same amount of HP as a standard European skirmisher, but with a lower cost (5 fewer resources), higher movement speed, and higher base attack.
The real balance issue lies in its bonuses. In addition to the skirmisher’s classic counter bonuses against light cavalry and heavy infantry, it has a 1.5x bonus against other skirmishers. This translates into 24 raw damage in its base state (excluding ranged resistance, or RR, which varies). Although its initial range is intended to balance the unit, it scales with age upgrades until it exceeds the game’s standard 20 range, reaching a maximum of 22.
I consider both the anti-skirmisher bonus and its final range to be excessive, as they essentially guarantee that the Piechur will comfortably win any long-range skirmisher duel.
The Retainer, on the other hand, seems like a Cossack with bonuses against virtually everything. It performs decently against light infantry, has a multiplier against artillery, and also receives bonuses against all types of cavalry. On top of that, the “National Cavalry” card gives them a bonus against heavy infantry from the start. In short, it is a unit that, in theory, counters virtually every unit in the game.
dejame adivinar tu solucion es convertir al piechur en un guerrillero estandar y al vasallo en un cosaco 2.0?
Lo unico que le quitaria al piechur es que gane tanto alcance al final, con dejarlo en 19 (contando la carta) esta bien para mi pero para mi sus bonus no son un problema, si eso le cambiara el 1,5 contra infanteria liger y pesada por un solo 1,5 contra infanteria en general PERO! que rifles contra infanteria solo le de un x0,5 en lugar de un x1, asi simplemente quedaria con un x2 contra toda la infanteria.
y en el caso del vasallo… que quieres que te diga? la infanteria pesada lo fulmina y los dragones tambien, incluso puedes matar algunos con guerrilla, no resisten a distancia, sino a mele. (por cierto toda cav pesada mata guerrilla, incluso hasta la más rancia, su bonus contra cav es de 1,5 ni siquiera es un x2, encima que su ataque inicial si mal no me equivoco es de 22, el de la artilleria… el oprichnik tiene algo similar o y el martillo meteoro tambien y no, la carta de caballeria nacional le quita el bonus negativo contra infanteria pesada, no le da un x2 contra ella
aqui tienes la pagina con las home city cards de los polacos y claramente caballeria nacional dice que da +0,5 en el bonus contra infanteria pesada y que sorpresa, el vasallo tiene x0,50 contra infanteria pesada xd
When a DLC is released, ideally the new units should fit within the established archetypes, with “compensatory” units being limited to situations where there is a clear counterplay gap, as was the case with the Azap. I could understand such an aggressive bonus if Polish artillery were mediocre or if the civilization completely lacked effective cavalry units to apply pressure. In that scenario, a dominant ranged unit could act as a necessary design crutch to keep the civilization afloat, as was the case with the Lakota Rifle Rider.
However, it seems absurd to consider a unit balanced when it simultaneously counters three different types of ranged units, while also being cheaper and faster than its counterparts and breaking the traditional counter triangle. That is not a justified balance decision; it is simply an unnecessary excess of power.
This design completely undermines the role of the traditional Skirmisher. On top of that, by benefiting from the anti-infantry rifle upgrades from the Arsenal, it performs reasonably well against heavy infantry. The imbalance is so significant that even a fully upgraded Salteador is unable to beat it in a straight-up ranged exchange.
The point is not to remove its bonus entirely, but rather to apply a proportional adjustment. The unit’s design should be carefully balanced so that its cost, range, and HP are fairly aligned with the maximum performance it can achieve throughout the game.
There is no need to explain where to find the card effects; I assume that anyone with even a basic understanding of the game already knows that.
Polish infantry isn’t particularly good outside the Piechur to be honest. Maybe reduce the range to 21 and let’s see how things go. They train rather slow.
Retainers are too overwhelming for a 1 pop unit. Though even with lances I don’t think they are that great against heavy infantry, since those units tend to have good melee bonuses against cavs anyways.
I was reviewing the Polish deck and was surprised the Riders of the Apocalypse HCC doesn’t affect Winged Hussars though. I know it doesn’t exactly fit them historically since the riders were more of a light cavalry unit, but Retainers are classified as heavy cav anyways and it feels weird having the Retainer be better against building than the Winged Hussars. The Winged Hussars could use the buff anyways.
Change to 20 then. At least then regular skirmishers will be able to get a shot in. Anything lower than 19 range is Strelet range and that’s not very good.
Are you referring to the new civs introduced in the Baltic DLC or just new DLC civilizations in general? If it’s the later, I didn’t find civs like Italy or Malta to have any really busted units they have easy access to. Mexico is an exception, but everyone is getting that civ for free now.
I guess the extra range is tempting to nerf into 19, but the base attack is still high, and so is the multiplier. I don’t know, a lot of parameters could be tweaked
I am sorry, the AZAP literally broke the camels back and is still an absurd problem unit that should not exist. A infantry counter skirmisher is comparativly to the insanity of an Azap a joke, because it hardly counters skirms. Unlike the azap which just outright shutsdown any cav at all.
I was looking at 16 base range, 20 Fully upgraded range with the base attack lowered to 14 (down from 16) and anti infantry bonuses changed to 1.75x vs heavy and 1.4x vs light. Not sure that would totally fix it, but at least they retain the niche.
Btw in VS Piechurs will be a fair bit cheaper than skirms. They cost more food, which is cheaper. I think you could even drop the anti skirm bonus as low as 1.25x and it would be reasonable.
Fully carded/upgraded Piechur being at 20 range is reasonable to keep it in line with other skirmishers. The Piechota Wybraniecka could be nerfed to give a 10% damage boost instead of 20%.
I know they have counter-skirmisher multipliers but their actual multipliers against heavy infantry are the same (1.5x). That’s lower than the Landwehr multipliers, and those guys are meant to inflict higher base damage at the expense of less bonus damage.
Check this out: here you can compare the Piechur against other Skirmishers. The Piechur also benefits from the Counter-Infantry Rifles upgrade from the Arsenal, which gives it an additional 1× multiplier vs heavy infantry. Unified Thread on Poland being op - #10 by toaf