I think the Mameluke (beside that they are the weirdest unit in the game), is the most unit that have classes. What are they:
Mameluke class.
Archer class (LOL).
Camel class.
Unique unit class.
Many people said that the archer armor class shouldn’t be in the Mameluke, it is the only melee unit that consider as archer (LOL). This class, brought a big troubles for this unit, why?!
Since they have the archer armor class and Mameluke class, and camel , they receive big damages bonuses from many units, for example:
Huskarl: do a +6 (+10 Elite) against Mameluke, becasue Mameluke is an archer!!! 11 OMG.
Skirms: do a +3 (+4 Elite).
Halbs: since the Mameluke have 2 classes that the Halb have bonus vs them (Camel and Mameluke) it make the Halbs the most stupid unit that have a bonus damage in the game, it have +26 vs Camel class, and +11 vs Mameluke class, +37 bonus attack in total in single shot to Mameluke (11 OMG what the hell?!).
My suggestions:
Halbs, Pikes, spears attack vs Camels in general reduced by (-4) for each.
Halbs, Pikes, spears attack vs Mameluke class reduced by -6.
Remove the archer class from Mameluke AND give skirms +2 attack vs Mameluke class.
Mameluke gold cost reduced to 70G (was 85).
Mameluke training time reduced to 19s(was 25).
Mameluke should get back its 0 frame delay, since having a frame delay with 3 range is killing the unit so hard and make hit and run tactic useless with this unit.
And last but not least, since we removed the archer class from Mameluke and give skirms +2 attack against Mameluke class, the laughable Huskarl will have nothing against Mameluke (and it shouldn’t have any thing from the beginning because making the Mameluke an Archer is ridiculous).
Yeah, this will be the best and will be FAIR, so we remove the archer class, but we give the skirms a bonus attack vs Mameluke class.
Yea you aren’t equalizer, the exactly same guy making these absurd posts
Matter of time until some mods here realize of your ban evasion and then ban you
I think the archer armor class isn’t the mameluke’s main problem. Huskarl vs Mameluke is super rare, doubt that a significant games are lost to this. Skirms are not a great counter as they seem on paper, because they are slow, and have a minimum range, so mamelukes can just get in melee range and kill. The Skirms high pierce armor is useless against the mameluke’s high melee damage.
Halbs having so much bonus damage is kinda weird, but it’s also really a non-factor. It’s considered a big blunder to allow halbs to get into melee range to hit mamelukes. The only thing that mamelukes need is probably a cost adjustment, because right now Heavy Camel fulfills a very similar role, but is way more accessible to produce.
Yeah I know, I already suggested to reduce the gold cost to 70 and TT to 19s before that too. I will add this to the topic. But my main idea here is about the archer class.
Archer armor isn’t that much of a problem. Sure it is a bit wierd since Mamelukes don’t really look and act like archers. But it isn’t very detrimental to them.
Only 4 units inflict bonus damage to archer class armor : Skirmisher, Huskarl, Genitour, and Cannon Galeon (but i’ll ignore this one). Genitour is a pretty bad choice against Mameluke, being a cavalry unit. Huskarl and Skirmisher are both foot units with no melee armor, meaning the Mameluke can easily hit and run while killing them one by one.
But man the Mameluke is melee unit, the 3 range is not justified to give them archer class. Already infantry are good options vs camel class, so giving the Mameluke archer class and make Huskarl do +10 damage vs them is ridiculous! 2nd thing as I said, after removing the Archer class, give the skirms +2 attack vs Mameluke class.
So you want to make a change that would have the exact same effect as how things are now? Then let’s just keep things that way.
As for the Huskarl, that’s a highly moot argument. As MatCauthon said there isn’t a reason for Saracens to go Mamelukes against Goths, and in the offchance it happens, Goths would be wiser to answer with mass trash Pike than gold Huskarls.
Yeah I know but this was an example. Making a unit like Huskarl have +10 bonus to a camel unit because it have ridiculously archer class make no sense. It is mistake from the devs and they should fix this mistake.
Not lol.
A fast ranged unit must be countered by ranged units. Since cavalry archers are countered by mamelukes, and archers and hand cannoneers are weak, only the skirmisher remains. That’s te reason mameluke has archer class.
And you can say: “But the other ranged units with melee damage (axe thrower and gbeto) doesn’t have the archer class”. No, because they don’t need it to be countered by skirmishers as they are already countered by other ranged units (cavalry archers, hand cannoneers, archers) that counter infantry.
It is not a melee unit, it’s a ranged unit with melee damage.
Just flee. Or with micro, you can kill them, you have ranged attack with melee damage, so you make good damage against huskarl and more damage to a halberdier than if you were a cavalry archer. You have less range than them, but more hp.
With all due repect, your argument is useless since I already gave a skirm bonus suggestion for Mameluk class after removing the archer class, so yeah not lol but BIG LOL.
basically here is what would happen if equalizer got his way.
first the mameluke would have its cost reduced.
on top of this it would have its training time reduced.
so now they are easier and cheaper to mass up. i’m fine with these actually.
on top of this pikes and halbs would do reduced damage to them probably at least 8 less damage. (seeing as he wants pike damage vs camels reduced by +4, so i add another +4 for the mameluke class).
then on top of this we have to remove the archer armor class, and based on his wishes reduce skirm bonus damage to 2 or 3 so now they are taking even less damage, from what is basically a soft counter anyway, just because huskarls shouldn’t do bonus damage to them (which while i agree, it make more work for the devs, and you shouldn’t be using mamelukes vs goths anyway).
Reminder that the op can’t even read a list properly. And thinks it’s fair to compare ONLY THE ELEPHANT ARMOR CLASS to the MAMELUKE + CAMEL ARMOR CLASS COMBINATION.
oh sorry. i failed to read the op completely. so after equalizer gets his wishes, if he got what he wanted.
halbs would do 10 less bonus damage to them doing only 37 a shot, assuming they get to them, before armor, or 33 total after armor. this means a halb requires 4 shots to kill a mameluke. those civs that have pikeman would only do 27 damage an attack, before armor, requiring 6 shots to kill a mameluke.
they would cost 15 less gold, which is a steep discount, and take 6 less seconds to train, meaning you get about 25% more of them for a given time period.
on top of this the damage from elite skirms is reduced down to +2 instead of +4.
and he somehow thinks this is balanced.
